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 Post subject: Further From the Truth
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:39 pm 
Vanilla

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I just listened to Further From the Truth, and I’m kind of at an odd place right now. I mean I know Morrie is the bad guy, and all, but I’m definitely missing clues. I’m guessing it ties into Novacom or the Blackgaard Chronicles or both, but definitely not sure how. I’d love to discuss this and see what y’all think. No, Lee, I haven’t read your script.


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 Post subject: Re: Further From the Truth
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:41 pm 
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I feel like there's a lot to think about in this episode, since
Morrie planned the whole thing. It's interesting how he pointed out in the adventure that he has the skills necessary to program the Imagination Station (when he multiplies those numbers in two seconds).

On another note, I noticed some ticking whenever the soundtrack music played. It sounded like a stopwatch and really doesn't have anything to do with the beat of the music :?
And in the scene at the college, I think I heard the clock strike 13 in the background.

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 Post subject: Re: Further From the Truth
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:58 pm 
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Wowzers, this episode is all sorts of screwy. O.o I definitely had to listen to it a second time to get a grasp on was happening.

And I still have so. many. questions.

Like, what ever happened with the escape room? Did they go ahead and open it after all? What ever happened to Ms. Popov? How does Whit not know ANYTHING about what happened? He also seems a lot less concerned about all this than he should be. Or is that just me? Also, is nobody concerned about Emily? She is obviously traumatized and probably needs to talk to a therapist.

YIKES.

Morrie is still definitely manipulating the situation. At the end when he's talking to Suzu, he points out--quite gleefully: "And now, like you said, everyone's talking about it." He obviously wants to shake people up with whatever he's doing, and it's all probably an elaborate distraction from whatever the master plan is.

Also. So. Many. Riddles. I was over that several Jones&Parker episodes ago. To quote Morrie, "These riddles are getting annoying."

Overall, this episode didn't really seem to advance the plot in any substantial way. Maybe we'll see more of its significance as the saga continues to unfold...

On a totally unrelated note, the score is INCREDIBLE, especially the music during the credits. It's so creepy, and I love it.

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 Post subject: Re: Further From the Truth
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:53 am 
Caramel Crunch
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Listening to it now.

--

The point where the episode turns from real to imaginary would seem to be 2:45.

A "goof", explained by the fact that it was an imperfect I.S. adventure: Faux-Eugene says that he's 'never misplaced his phone before', but in "A Thankstaking Story", he had not only lost his phone, but took Connie's instead. Furthermore, we know from his background that it isn't uncommon for him to lose important things (like his keys).

It's difficult to unravel exactly what's going on at this point. It seems evident that Suzu doesn't trust Morrie, though, and I doubt whether Em does either.

A few observations based on the final dialogue:
Morrie keeps trying to push Emily and Suzu into working together. At this point it's uncertain whether he actually wants them to (for some nefarious purpose), or if he's (nefariously) bringing it up expecting that his pushing it so hard will make it less likely to happen.

It's curious that he tries to pin the blame on Mr. Whittaker for the adventure. I wonder if this ties into the previous point.

There being a 'kidnapping' involved seems to have struck a chord with Suzu for some reason. I wonder if there's one involved in their background somewhere.

Gleeful about publicity or not, judging by his tone of voice before that, Morrie doesn't exactly seem thrilled about Emily 'rising to the occasion'. Possibly at this point he decided that he underestimated her, not unlikely given his arrogance.

Morrie misplacing other people's things seems to be an ongoing theme in this episode. I wouldn't be surprised if he hid Suzu's notebook (presumably because she writes private notes in it that he can't read -- although I'm curious if this illiteracy is faked too, since it seems a bit odd for him to be the son of an ambassador to Asia, have an adopted sister from Japan, and then after all that not know anything about written Japanese).

Buddy is the anti-Morrie.

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 Post subject: Re: Further From the Truth
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:47 pm 
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Idk. I'm not a huge fan of the new AIO (yeah, call me a boomer), but the Morrie stuff is getting a little boring. This is like the 5th episode with the same plot of: some lame riddle mystery for Emily to solve, turns out rather harmless and maybe even something good is the result, and then we all know Morrie is the bad guy because he has some random epilogue monologue. I mean, is anyone still in suspense about who the bad guy is or what Morrie is doing? I'm just waiting for something new or interesting to happen. Like, absolutely nothing has happened since the first time we met Morrie. I'm beginning to think the monologue he made about "evil can result in good, I'm that evil" is true, and Odyssey doesn't want us to overthink Morrie haha. The portablr IS is cool, though confusing how that actually works...

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 Post subject: Re: Further From the Truth
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:12 pm 
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I hate this episode.
I was okay with the style of episode where Morrie has just a little dialogue at the end that makes the episode worth it; see my thoughts on "The Good in People." But that was Era 9, 2016 to 2018. Now, with "A Sacrificial Escape," the stakes are higher, and Morrie has revealed himself. Now, there's no time to deal with unrelated little episodes (or fake mysteries, for that matter) because Morrie has to be caught.

And Whit has no leads.

YOU ARE SO STUPID, WHITTAKER!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Further From the Truth
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:48 pm 
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Hahaha, Lee, I KNEW you were going to hate it. :lol: My condolences. :boohoo:

So here's the thing: I'm thinking there HAS to be something we're all missing here. I mean, this CAN'T be IT, can it?

Also, I forgot to mention earlier, but I was seriously disturbed by how off Eugene's characterization was in the Imagination Station part. Maybe the web they're weaving is just a bunch of mind games to make us all crazy.

OOOH, but that's actually not a half-bad idea. Are we going back to mind control?

But, alas, it's probably too much to hope for.

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 Post subject: Re: Further From the Truth
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:24 am 
Strawberry

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Ok, here's a few facts to consider, as well as a quick theory on what Morrie has done so far.

1.We don't much about the rydells but morrie seems to know stuff he shouldn't about whit and how the imagination station works.
2.Morrie and Suzu became step-siblings only a few years earlier.
3 Suzu writes in japanese, which Morrie says he can't read, but likely knows at least some.
4 Suzu has said that Morrie has done similar things before, and it almost sounds like she blames someone else for influencing Morrie, possibly someone close, whom she may have met.
5 it's made very clear that tom died 'years ago', like it's important to know that.
6 The cause of Tom's death hasn't been revealed. surely if he died in his sleep, it would have been mentioned, so that long time fans would know that he went peacefully. though it definitely sounds like it was unexpected.
7, the chairman was never caught (as far as we know) and his identity is unknown.
8 the chairman said 'it's over, for now", he clearly had other ideas and has had 'years' to work on it (see what I mean).
9, Andromeda was a parent company, so they could own other companies/businesses all over the world. the chairman could have escaped to one of these, as only Novacom and Andromeda were investigate thoroughly.
10 The chairman has knowledge of Whit and Eugene, due to spying on them, as well as knowledge about the imagination station.
11 Blackguaard is the only other bad guy who is not in jail. his body's never been found.
12 Blackguaard's family (apart from Edwin and their mother) have never been discussed, the same goes for the chairman.
13 Blackguaard used others to get what he wanted. using Morrie (whit hasn't met before) seems to be something he would do. and why would Whit suspect the son of an ambassador to be behind everything so far.

Morrie Theory: Morrie needs to distract Whit, so seeing how much he cares about the kids, he targets Emily, a keen detective, and Matthew, a keen young inventor who sees whit and Eugene as mentors. Morrie carefully tests Matthew's friendship with Emily. seeing that Emily needs Matthew, who is getting bored with mysteries. he locks them in the escape room and manages to scare Matthew into quitting solving mysteries with Emily. with Whit trying to nudge them back together, and Morrie (acting the part of a 'good friend') playing along in his own warped way via the portable imagination station.

Other Morrie theory: something happened to him in the past that made him so twisted that he's just playing some kind of sick game for his own enjoyment.


Anything I've missed or got wrong let me know. Also I started writing this yesterday after listening to 'further from the truth".


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 Post subject: Re: Further From the Truth
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 7:28 am 
Caramel Crunch
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I appreciate the effort people put into tying up all previous loose ends, but I think a Grand Unifying Theory of Villains will continue to be elusive.

For one thing, I think the point about Tom is over-emphasized. Mentioning how long ago it was is helpful to listeners for establishing a timeline, and also explains why it is that the characters have somewhat gotten over it by now; saying that it connects to a sinister plot is more than a stretch. I also don't see how you get to the idea that it must have been some unusual death by that logic. The reverse conclusion, using the same logic, seems stronger and more compelling: surely if it had been some bizarre unexpected incident, it would have been mentioned. Neither Whit nor Connie nor Eugene nor 'Becky' said anything like that, and whenever the subject comes up, the focus is on the loss and all the time that they were together before, nothing more. Obviously it's a shock any time that someone dies, but Tom was an older man and it somewhat comes with the territory. None of their reactions seem to indicate anything more happened than what we'd expect.

Technically Glossman's been out for a few years now, and other minor villains may also be unaccounted for, but that statement about bad guys in jail/prison seems to be true of major villains.

But we don't know that 'only Novacom and Andromeda were investigated thoroughly', and logically it doesn't seem likely that that's the case. Maybe those were the only investigations that took place 'onscreen', as it were, but Agent Bourland and the FBI would have to be pretty dense to not even consider looking over the other companies' assets, in their search for possibly the world's most dangerous men in one of the world's most dangerous plots.

The new Blackgaard Chronicles books are likely more forthcoming about his family, but I'd say that even in the radio series, although we don't know a lot about it, we still know more about Blackgaard's family than we do about any other major villains, or most minor ones. As far as the Chairman, we don't really know anything about him. We could make up a plausible-sounding theory about him being anybody, and many people already have, because there isn't much there to prove or disprove anything.

The point of Blackgaard's body keeps coming up in fan theories. It might be permanently laid to rest yet, but from the radio series alone, I think it's worth asking at this point: do we actually know that it wasn't ever found? Even if it might not have been immediately after the bombing, that doesn't mean that it never was, or that he isn't dead. From that point on, all of the characters, and more importantly, the AIO team and Focus on the Family, have spoken about him as being confirmed dead. The writers have even played off of speculation on this for two different jokes (I Slap Floor and "Novacom Rules the Earth"). They don't seem to take it seriously at all, and there's no reason why they should; it would completely ruin one of their top albums, and the climax thereof.

As far as Whit being distracted goes, if that's Morrie's plan, it isn't working very well since he doesn't seem to be thinking about it much at all. ;) That's the downside of only having one Morrie episode an album, I suppose, and Emily (not Whit) being the main protagonist in those.

My memory could be off, but I don't know that I'd say Morrie has an unusual amount of knowledge about Whit. I'd be interested in hearing what examples you have in mind regarding that. I'm not even sure that Morrie's knowledge of the I.S. is that unusual or impressive; he's not the first to have programmed or modified it without extensive pre-training, and it seems to be something any competent programmer could be expected to do (or even not so competent -- Connie creates a working, if unrealistic, RoC sequence in just a few minutes). What surprises me more is the fact that Whit apparently carelessly left parts from one of his most prized and most dangerous inventions out where anyone could get to it. He's definitely slipped from the time when he wouldn't let Barry Muntz so much as look at the plans. I know the writers said that they didn't write it or mean it this way, but it wouldn't be hard to write a plot about Whit's gradual decline; the foundations seem to have been laid for it, starting in Life Expectancy and continuing to the present.

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 Post subject: Re: Further From the Truth
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:08 am 
Strawberry

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Sorry, I could have been a bit clearer. I wasn't trying to come up with any theories, just listing possible links, as well as any theories others have come up with that could be true, such as Blackguaard somehow surviving. I personally think if there is any connection to a previous villain, it's merely Morrie hearing about some of the other bad guys, like how penny mentioned Mr Charles even though she arrived in odyssey after the Novacom saga. I know the writers have stated that Blackguaard is dead, which I believe. but then I remember they also said 'we won't have Tom die on the show", so you can understand how some people may think Blackguaard is still around.


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 Post subject: Re: Further From the Truth
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 11:08 pm 
Vanilla

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I agree 100% with points made by djchatswithu


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 Post subject: Re: Further From the Truth
PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:45 pm 
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Scientific Guy wrote:
I hate this episode.
I was okay with the style of episode where Morrie has just a little dialogue at the end that makes the episode worth it; see my thoughts on "The Good in People." But that was Era 9, 2016 to 2018. Now, with "A Sacrificial Escape," the stakes are higher, and Morrie has revealed himself. Now, there's no time to deal with unrelated little episodes (or fake mysteries, for that matter) because Morrie has to be caught.

And Whit has no leads.

YOU ARE SO STUPID, WHITTAKER!!!

I need to take that back. It was unfair to the writers to give my opinion when there was a lot else clouding my judgment, especially using the word “hate.” It’s actually a fine episode, but absolutely contrary to my expectations, which is my fault. I recant the statement and I am sorry for it.


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 Post subject: Re: Further From the Truth
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:31 pm 
Vanilla

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Nathan Hoobler told me this information Tuesday.

“Hey Riley,

Yes, there will be more of the Rydell saga in album 69. In fact, the first episode picks up right where “Further from the Truth” left off.”


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 Post subject: Re: Further From the Truth
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:19 pm 
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I may be alone in this, but I hope the Rydell saga does not tie into any past sagas (Blackgaard, Novacom, Green Ring). I hope it stands on its own. Each one of the sagas I mentioned would not have been near as good if they were constantly looking back on old story lines instead of doing something original.


aioduck29 wrote:
Nathan Hoobler told me this information Tuesday.

“Hey Riley,

Yes, there will be more of the Rydell saga in album 69. In fact, the first episode picks up right where “Further from the Truth” left off.”


That is the best possible news about this story arc. I'm glad we don't have to wait real long to hear more.

If it picks up right after FFTT, I think the episode should have ended when Emily had her light bulb moment about the culprit. It would be more of a cliffhanger ending like A Time for Action, Part 2 and then immediately continuing in Cover of Darkness.


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 Post subject: Re: Further From the Truth
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:52 pm 
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HOT TAKE: What if Morrie is actually a good guy?

I have a theory. Is it possible that Morrie is being framed for all the wonky things going on, while he’s trying to subtly expose the real culprit?

Hear me out.

Emily comes out of the whole portable Imagination Station ordeal convinced that Morrie is responsible. She has deduced that since whoever created the program must be good at math, Morrie must be the one responsible because he solved a complex math equation so quickly in the program.

HOWEVER. None of what happened in the Imagination Station part of the story is real. Whoever created the program did so with the intent of causing Emily to think that Morrie is responsible.

NOW, think about every end-of-episode conversation we’ve had between Morrie and Suzu. Notice how they speak in very vague and cryptic terms. These conversations have led us to believe that Morrie is being shifty and sinister. But what if it’s the other way around?

What if Suzu has some kind of intel on Morrie—something she’s holding over his head so he can’t just outright tell someone what’s going on?

I’m not saying she’s the mastermind, either. Only that she, like Morrie, is part of something bigger than we're being shown at the moment. It’s just…something to think about.

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Last edited by ByeByeBrownie on Fri Feb 07, 2020 8:34 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Further From the Truth
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 5:43 am 
Strawberry

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ByeByeBrownie wrote:
HOT TAKE: What if Morrie is actually a good guy?

I have a theory. Is it possible that Morrie is being framed for all the wonky things going on, while he’s trying to subtly expose the real culprit?

Hear me out.

Emily comes out of the whole portable Imagination Station ordeal convinced that Morrie is responsible. She has deduced that since whoever created the program must be good at math, Morrie must be the one responsible because he solved a complex math equation so quickly in the program.

HOWEVER. None of what happened in the Imagination Station part of the story is real. Whoever created the program did so with the intent of causing Emily to think that Morrie is responsible.

NOW, think about every end-of-episode conversation we’ve had between Morrie and Suzu. Notice how they speak in very vague and cryptic terms. These conversations have led us to believe that Morrie is being shifty and sinister. But what if it’s the other way around?

What if Suzu has some kind of intel on Morrie—something she’d holding over his head so he can’t just outright tell someone what’s going on?

I’m not saying she’s the mastermind, either. It’s just…something to think about.


That, is a brilliant theory. We know that Emily represents Sherlock, but who ever is representing Moriarty 'is so far from suspicion that no one would even think once about the matter".


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 Post subject: Re: Further From the Truth
PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:28 am 
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I really like that one. That's about all I can say right now. It's just- I really hope it's true that'd be beautiful.

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