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#876 Page from the Playbook

Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:39 pm
by Tarol
Why did Eugene become a new person? He's now like unaware of the world, has a deeper voice, acts way more awkward than normal? Yes, he's always been a nerd but he suddenly regressed back a fair bit of of albums... This whole episode just felt very off to me, and it somehow is just a Kathy episode. It almost felt like a new writer and director.
Idk, it wasn't an awful episode plot wise, I just didn't appreciate the directing or characterizations of the people. What did you think?

Re: #876 Page from the Playbook

Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:06 pm
by ByeByeBrownie
I definitely agree that Eugene was a bit extra in this episode. HOWEVER, with that said, I'll go out on a limb and say it wasn't really anything beyond the typical "suspension of disbelief" of Odyssey, so I didn't mind it.

There was a question on the official podcast a while ago about why Eugene wasn't "funny" anymore, so I'm wondering if this is possibly the writers' response to that?

I did also like seeing Buck interacting with some real, normal friends.

On the whole, I thought this episode was just okay, though. Would have been just fine as a club episode, I think.

Re: #876 Page from the Playbook

Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:55 am
by PennyBassett
So I just listened to this episode again, I think I have an explanation. The first time I heard it, I thought the same thing. Why was Eugene using big words again, why was he surprised when Buck told him he was his son, etc. But let's look at it from a different angle.
Here's a scene from The Ties That Bind Part 10.
Eugene: Oh what arrangments did you make for Buck?
KATRINA: He said he'd finish up at Whit's End and then walk home.
EUGENE: I hope we're not breaking any rules as his "halfway house providers."
KATRINA: Eugene. We're more than that.
EUGENE: Well, we may desire it, but will Buck allow it.
KATRINA: Maybe if you engaged him more. This is the time to shape our future together. He needs you to be- a father figure.
EUGENE: Isn't he beyond that?
KATRINA: I don't think so. You can start with finding some common ground. He needs to feel connected to us beyond room and board. I still think that's why he's working so hard. He's trying to pay us back. He'll talk to you in a way he won't talk to me.
From Eugene's perspective, his role in his and Buck's relationship is to do what Katrina suggested. Be a father figure. Find common ground. We see this in Connie the Counselor, at the end of The Ties That Bind, in Crash Course, in Old Tricks, it's even mentioned in Friend or Foe. Eugene is constantly trying to connect with his foster son. If Buck picks up a new hobby, Eugene is going to try and find a way they can connect through it. Page From the Playbook is no exception. Buck has started football. Eugene sees how invested Buck is in it. He's found something he loves, he's making friends, he's becoming popular. I think Eugene saw this and decided he should try to connect with Buck on his level. And The Odyssey Owls needed a second coach...
Now let's take a look inside Eugene's brain. His first language comes with complicated vocabulary, perfect grammar, excessive facts and data. It's how his brain works. It's how he thinks and learns new things. And Eugene is not a sporty person. Which means went and learned a ton about football just so that he could coach for Buck's team. The scene where he's coaching, I would imagine he's:
Excited - (New information huzzah!)
Nervous - (My son is here and I want him to respect me. I want him to be happy that I'm here even though I didn't tell him about this beforehand.)

He's excited and nervous. We know when Eugene is feeling intense emotions, he tries to anchor himself by reverting to impressive speech. It's a defense mechanism and a sign that he's not completely comfortable in the situation yet. So I think that explains most of his seemingly younger tendencies in this episode. I also think he just talks more formally with Buck as well. Their relationship is relatively new. They're two closed-off people that find it hard to connect. It takes a while. I think Eugene was also put off by Buck saying he was hard to understand. Eugene knows this, but I think it feels different coming from Buck. Eugene wanted to make him happy. He wanted to show Buck he cared about his hobbies. In that scene, Eugene ends up feeling like he's failed.
So there are my two cents. Hopefully, that made sense, and yeah, maybe it was just bad writing, but I think it can be, at the very least, passively excused.

I liked this episode overall. I think it was cool, like y'all said, to see Buck with real friends and school status. I love that everyone is finally in high school. Even Jay and Olivia. Cuz wow it's about time. We got some lovely insight into how Buck's doing and his character in general. I think it's interesting how he immediately got angry and blamed himself when he was deceived by Drew. The message about trusting people was something I needed to hear and was executed really nicely. I'll have to listen to it a few more times before being able to give it a full review, but I enjoyed it. It was funny and touching at times. Odyssey has really upped their game so far with this album. Things were getting too simplistic. I'm happy to see them breaking that habit.

Re: #876 Page from the Playbook

Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:27 am
by Tarol
I suppose, it makes sense emotionally for Eugene to be different as a coach. I guess my complaint (and I should re-listen to it) was that it didn't even feel like regular nerdy-Eugene. It was kinda just like the writers were like "LOL Eugene=nurd so he says big words in sports." Eugene's dialog felt awkward because it was awkwardly written, I feel, and not because Eugene's character was awkward. I don't exactly mean to insult the writing or directing, I'm just trying to understand why Eugene felt so off and different...

I also agree Buck and Drew's friendship togetger was really nice to see. It felt very genuine between the two. It's nice to see two older teen peer characters being friends, which has only happened a few other times in AIO.

Re: #876 Page from the Playbook

Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:59 pm
by ByeByeBrownie
Okay, so I've listened to the episode a couple more times, and I'm liking it more each time through.
PennyBassett wrote: From Eugene's perspective, his role in his and Buck's relationship is to do what Katrina suggested. Be a father figure. Find common ground. We see this in Connie the Counselor, at the end of The Ties That Bind, in Crash Course, in Old Tricks, it's even mentioned in Friend or Foe. Eugene is constantly trying to connect with his foster son. If Buck picks up a new hobby, Eugene is going to try and find a way they can connect through it. Page From the Playbook is no exception. Buck has started football. Eugene sees how invested Buck is in it. He's found something he loves, he's making friends, he's becoming popular. I think Eugene saw this and decided he should try to connect with Buck on his level. And The Odyssey Owls needed a second coach...
Now let's take a look inside Eugene's brain. His first language comes with complicated vocabulary, perfect grammar, excessive facts and data. It's how his brain works. It's how he thinks and learns new things. And Eugene is not a sporty person. Which means went and learned a ton about football just so that he could coach for Buck's team. The scene where he's coaching, I would imagine he's:
Excited - (New information huzzah!)
Nervous - (My son is here and I want him to respect me. I want him to be happy that I'm here even though I didn't tell him about this beforehand.)

He's excited and nervous. We know when Eugene is feeling intense emotions, he tries to anchor himself by reverting to impressive speech. It's a defense mechanism and a sign that he's not completely comfortable in the situation yet. So I think that explains most of his seemingly younger tendencies in this episode. I also think he just talks more formally with Buck as well. Their relationship is relatively new. They're two closed-off people that find it hard to connect. It takes a while. I think Eugene was also put off by Buck saying he was hard to understand. Eugene knows this, but I think it feels different coming from Buck. Eugene wanted to make him happy. He wanted to show Buck he cared about his hobbies. In that scene, Eugene ends up feeling like he's failed.
So there are my two cents. Hopefully, that made sense, and yeah, maybe it was just bad writing, but I think it can be, at the very least, passively excused.
Penny, this was super deep, and I totally get where you're coming from on that.

Just a few more of my random thoughts on this episode:

1. I LOVED Jay in this episode. Give me more of that always, please. His souvenir business actually gave me a tad bit of deja vu. Has there ever been anything like that on Odyssey before, or maybe in a movie or something? I just can't figure out why it seems so familiar to me. :?:

2. I really liked some of the Eugene lines and could have done without others. I thought the "swine bladder" bit was cute, and very classic Eugene. I didn't so much care for the "zone of finality," though. But that's just me.

3. As I mentioned, I really liked seeing Buck interacting with his peers as friends (as opposed to girls or little kids who worshiped him :lol: ). HOWEVER, I've always liked the idea of seeing Buck struggle to fit in with his peers. He likely spent his entire childhood surrounded by adults, never went to an actual school, and so forth, and I would just like to see him struggle to fit in at school. I mean, is there anyone in Odyssey so far who hasn't liked Buck (except for maybe Detective Polehaus)? I would love to see this idea explored a bit.

Re: #876 Page from the Playbook

Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:44 pm
by PennyBassett
Oooo that's a really good point. I knew there was something about his relationships that rubbed me the wrong way. It also wouldn't help anything, him being an introvert. AND he has trouble trusting other males. He connected with Katrina way faster than with Eugene. Mr. Skint mentally abused him and then abandoned him after all.

Re: #876 Page from the Playbook

Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:43 pm
by MonkeyDude
I honestly forgot just how much I missed Eugene. I mean, he wasn't really gone but still.

Re: #876 Page from the Playbook

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:20 pm
by Tarol
Is Buck really an introvert? I don't see that... More a quiet extrovert?

Re: #876 Page from the Playbook

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:06 pm
by ByeByeBrownie
Now, this is an intriguing debate. I would argue that he's actually an ambivert, driven by the deeper need to be master of his current situation. He's so good at reading people/situations and acting accordingly. What do you guys think?

Re: #876 Page from the Playbook

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:56 pm
by Tarol
I mean, I'm not a huge Buck fan because i never could quite follow his bad to good transition and timeline. That is to say I don't think about him as much as fans/fanfic writers etc do. But I agree on the ambivert. Yes, I can see him enjoying moments of quiet, but living in the deception business means he gets acceptance and energy from actively decieving people. He never seems to get worn out helping the police trap bad guys, or constantly being in crowded areas like carnival or even school and Whit's End.
I mean, I also think introvert/extrovert are mostly useless descriptions that are way more black and white then people actually are. But thats a different discussion haha.

Re: #876 Page from the Playbook

Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:43 am
by ASmouseInTheHouse
I have a lot of things to say about this episode, so...
First things first, let me say that I LOVED the music in this episode. It was perfect.
Secondly, this episode also brought some new characters: Cooper, Drew, and Coach Calhoun. I appreciate that Odyssey is giving us some new teenager characters. This was much better than Rightly Dividing; there was a good ratio of new characters to usual ones. I'm curious to learn more about the Calhouns…and was it just me or, does it sound like Coach Calhoun has some sort of accent?
One thing confusing about this episode was the moral. I was all over the place. At first, I was like, "Oh, this is gonna be like Potlucks and Poetry…" Then I got to the part where Buck wanted to steal the playbook and I thought, "Ok, so it's revenge…" I didn’t even get what the moral was until the second last scene. So, that was a bit confusing and odd, at least to me.
And now, to the main part of this discussion: Jay Smouse. It's good to have him back in an album. True to his character, he jumps out of a bush at the beginning of the episode. Here's something I've been wondering about ever since Jay returned:
Rewind back to album 58, where we see several quotes from Jay about Buck...
"Where’s my wallet? What's he doin' here? Did he break out of jail?"
"I can't believe you're here! How do you have the nerve to actually be here?!!"
"I'm takin' home all my valuables."
"Throw him back in Juvie hall, where he belongs?"
"Do you think he's involved?!"
From the above quotes, it's pretty obvious that Jay is still mad at Buck for the stunt he and Mr. Skint pulled on Wally Haggler. In the GRC, Jay has a fit when he finds out it was Buck who tried to frame Wally. So, when Buck returned in 58, I was curious to see if that tension between the two characters would be developed more. Unfortunately, Jay took off for Hollywood and didn't return until 64.
Finally, in 67, Buck and Jay meet again. Now I'm wondering if Jay was being overdramatic in 58 and has forgotten about the grudge or else he just didn't mention it in this episode. But he doesn't seem to have a problem with Buck, probably because he was busy trying to get some souvenirs from him. It's fine that this was not explored, but I would really like to see it discussed in the future.
Jay was…Jay in this episode. His first scene had me laughing as usual ("I have a perfectly good reason…(…)…wait, you wanna actually hear it?"). Funny and annoying most of the time. ("Who, who, who, who's rockin' this owl costume?!") ("I didn't hear Jay's name on that list. Do you mean to say Jay too?")
In short, Page from the Playbook was a pretty good episode. There were some issues, but I can easily overlook them, so this episode gets a 4.3 out of 5.