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 Post subject: Re: Odyssey Adventure Comparison System 2.5
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:36 pm 
Caramel Crunch
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This is pretty cool, I vote it over pretty much any rating system I have seen of anything.

Nice idea to implement the ELO system.

Is it calculated similar to the ELO system in Chess? Or does it just borrow the name?

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 Post subject: Re: Odyssey Adventure Comparison System 2.5
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:04 am 
Strawberry
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Thanks. It isn't a unique concept -- things like it had been done before elsewhere, especially with the late rating system that used to be on sports-reference pages, which worked similarly to this one. Elo is getting popular these days, though, and I knew the Odyssey community didn't have anything like this. I hoped it could make a splash. With over 15,000 matches, I guess it's on its way.

OACS uses a generalized public domain Elo system for PHP that was made by Michal Chovanec, so the mechanism should be the same as the system used in Chess. The relevant configuration settings for it are the initial rating of 2000, and a K-factor of 24.

Incidentally, since we're on the subject of how the ratings work, the 'points' system takes win rate and the Elo difference from 2000, finds the top and lowest ranked episodes in the system, and uses those in a geometry-type equation to get the proper total for each episode, with the values worked out into .5 increments, and rating floors/ceilings of 1 and 10, respectively.

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 Post subject: Re: Odyssey Adventure Comparison System 2.5
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:34 pm 
Caramel Crunch
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Hey Bob, I wanted to say thanks for the credit at the bottom of the page :) but those summaries weren't my own summaries; they were the ones provided by Focus on WhitsEnd.org. Just thought I'd alleviate any confusion.
Here are a few questions about things to add: could you add a denotation for unaired, retrospective, and split episodes? Would it be possible to use the left, right, and down arrow keys for navigation (right: Vote 4 episode on right, etc.)? And can you add an out-of-884 rank to the columns on the statistics page?
Thanks for all this hard work!

EDIT: Also, "It Takes Integrity" sorts #1 when sorted by name. Some episode descriptions (e.g. A Class Reenactment, Target of the Week) display ۝ as the closing quotation marks. "Sir Buddy's Snow Day" should be named "Snowy Day" (and rated MUCH higher :o ).

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 Post subject: Re: Odyssey Adventure Comparison System 2.5
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:52 pm 
Strawberry
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I can't do much about the rating of any single episode ;), but the other requests and fixes seem generally reasonable and something I'd like to get to when I make the time. I'm not sure about the exact implementation of the keyboard shortcuts; I would rather use something besides the arrow keys, since it's technically possible that you might want to use those to scroll. However, that's a detail that can certainly be worked out. Perhaps (W)SAD and also the numpad?

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 Post subject: Re: Odyssey Adventure Comparison System 2.5
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:29 pm 
Caramel Crunch
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(W)SAD / numpad is good. By the way, what episodes are listed under the Official Podcast album?


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 Post subject: Re: Odyssey Adventure Comparison System 2.5
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:48 pm 
Strawberry
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From my memory, I think it's just "You Go To School Where?", but there might be one or two others. It'd probably be a good idea to include what album each episode is in the episode stats list (I'm surprised I didn't think of that sooner).

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 Post subject: Re: Odyssey Adventure Comparison System 2.5
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:54 pm 
Caramel Crunch
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Just wondering, not sure if you've thought of this, but do you have any protection against spam attacks? Any way to rollback votes by some random person spam-clicking the left button?


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 Post subject: Re: Odyssey Adventure Comparison System 2.5
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:06 pm 
Strawberry
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The thought crossed my mind some time ago, when I was working on another project that I deemed potentially vulnerable to spambots (even though spamming would be completely pointless in the context of that project).

As far as mainstream spammers go, the page doesn't have any indicators of things that would be interesting to spammers (like comment forms, etc.) that it doesn't seem like bots would be that interested. I have a Wordpress blog just a stone's throw away that regularly gets a handful of spam comments, but if there's been any spambot activity on OACS, it's been just noise in the voting patterns, not something that can be differentiated from good-faith votes. I could probably add something to it to help throw off any bots that show up, though. I was planning on doing it for that other project at some point, so if I do that, I may add it to OACS too just for completeness sake. I don't think it's a big issue though.

As far as users, not bots... at present OACS doesn't have any kind of repeated vote prohibition. That said, though, an underlying assumption of the system is that the votes are made in good faith. There's nothing to prevent anyone from spamming the left button, but there's also nothing to keep them from voting only underdogs, or skipping matches to only vote for episodes that they like. It's just assumed that our users, in a relatively small community oriented around the subject matter, would attempt to make votes that are in line with what they think are good rankings of Odyssey episodes.

I suppose it's possible that a troll with a lot of patience and free time could mess up the rankings, but as a troll you have to consider the time-to-value ratio. You're spending a lot of time voting, and not just voting at random (which might produce results that look legit to the audience at large), but methodically voting episodes people think are bad up, and vice versa, to damage the ranking list. That takes a certain level of judgment about what episodes are good and bad itself, and there's enough inherent noise to the proposition that you might accidentally bring some episodes to a closer evaluation of where they 'should' be in the process, at least from somebody or another's point of view. And after all of that work, you don't have much to show for it. There's no outraged posts with people taking the bait on a forum or comments section -- just a bunch of numbers. And if I look at the rankings and think that something is amiss, I have the ability to look at the votes that've been made, delete them, and recompute Elo ratings based on the surviving votes, possibly more quickly than it would take to mess the ratings up in the first place.

If you're a troll looking to cause some trouble 'for the lolz', it's just not a winning proposition. You'd have a lot more fun going on AIOWiki and making troll edits, or posting inane comments on the ToO or SS, and it would take considerably less time to get the kind of results you want.

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