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 Post subject: Re: A Thread
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:18 pm 
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Thanks for telling us TS, I hope if there are any sheltered kids on here yet that they can learn from you and see that different sexual orientations doesn't make you a bad person, or someone to avoid... I hope they learn to be just as loving as towards any person. =) I'll be praying for you too, you have a journey ahead of you. I hope you can find some good friends to talk with and discuss what (if anything) this means for you and your life.

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 Post subject: Re: A Thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:06 am 
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Isaiah the Ox wrote:
Thanks for telling us TS, I hope if there are any sheltered kids on here yet that they can learn from you and see that different sexual orientations doesn't make you a bad person, or someone to avoid... I hope they learn to be just as loving as towards any person. =) I'll be praying for you too, you have a journey ahead of you. I hope you can find some good friends to talk with and discuss what (if anything) this means for you and your life.


Amen Isaiah! And while I don't agree with your decision, T.S., I am sure you spent a lot of time thinking and praying about it.

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 Post subject: Re: A Thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:41 pm 
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Isaiah the Ox wrote:
Thanks for telling us TS, I hope if there are any sheltered kids on here yet that they can learn from you and see that different sexual orientations doesn't make you a bad person, or someone to avoid... I hope they learn to be just as loving as towards any person. =) I'll be praying for you too, you have a journey ahead of you. I hope you can find some good friends to talk with and discuss what (if anything) this means for you and your life.

Thanks, Isaiah. That is my hope as well. I had to learn how to have empathy for other queer people before I was able to accept my own sexual orientation. Maybe it will be like that for others too.

Jo March wrote:
Amen Isaiah! And while I don't agree with your decision, T.S., I am sure you spent a lot of time thinking and praying about it.

I don't fault you for holding the views you were raised with, but this doesn't reflect reality. Sexual orientation (also referred to as sexuality or attraction) isn't something that can be chosen or decided upon. I didn't choose to be gay any more than a straight person chooses to be heterosexual. The only decision involved here is me no longer hiding my sexual orientation. If sexuality was a choice, I would choose to become straight in a heartbeat.

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 Post subject: Re: A Thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:53 pm 
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Jo March wrote:
Amen Isaiah! And while I don't agree with your decision, T.S., I am sure you spent a lot of time thinking and praying about it.


Openly acknowledging your sexual attractions and embracing homosexuality as a lifestyle/integrating into the LGBT community are separate things. Being attracted to members of the same sex is no more a sin than being attracted to a member of the opposite sex.

That said, I'm not saying T.S. is saying one or the other. Rather, I'm pointing out that "coming out" can mean different things.

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 Post subject: Re: A Thread
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:39 pm 
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While I do want to address misconceptions that come up, I don't want to get into a debate over whether or not same gender relationships are inherently evil, because I feel that it would be unproductive and detract from the original purpose of the thread. My main reasons for creating it were 1) for my own peace of mind and personal growth and 2) to hopefully foster a more welcome environment for those here who are LGBT+, including those who are closeted.

NinjaHunter wrote:
Openly acknowledging your sexual attractions and embracing homosexuality as a lifestyle/integrating into the LGBT community are separate things. Being attracted to members of the same sex is no more a sin than being attracted to a member of the opposite sex.

That said, I'm not saying T.S. is saying one or the other. Rather, I'm pointing out that "coming out" can mean different things.

This really isn't how it works.

1). I'm gay. Whatever lifestyle I have will be a gay lifestyle, regardless of whether or not I ever date or marry.

2). There is no "LGBT+ community." It has a nice sound to it, sure, and it can be a useful term at times. But there is no one community I could point to and say "yes, that is the LGBT+ community." There are only LGBT+ people, and the variety among us is wider than most people realize.

There are LGBT+ organizations, social groups, and in some cases shared cultural experiences, but none of those are universal or even necessarily representative of us overall.

If your intention is to distinguish between celibate gay people and those who "associate with the rest of the LGBT+ community," that doesn't work either since there are organizations and groups that contain both perspectives. For example, the Gay Christian Network welcomes both "Side A" and "Side B" gay Christians (aka those who don't believe same sex relationships are inherently wrong and those who do). It's cruel and contradictory to promote the belief that the Church has compassion and welcomes """those who are afflicted by same sex attraction""" while simultaneously demanding that they never be open about their sexuality or refusing to hold even basic dialogue with gay Christians.

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 Post subject: Re: A Thread
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:58 pm 
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Tea Ess wrote:
It's cruel and contradictory to promote the belief that the Church has compassion and welcomes """those who are afflicted by same sex attraction""" while simultaneously demanding that they never be open about their sexuality or refusing to hold even basic dialogue with gay Christians.


What do you think I'm trying to do on this thread? I've commended you for coming out, and I'm trying to figure out what you believe about homosexuality as a homosexual so that we can exchange ideas without trying to kill each other. No one here has told you to shut up or go away; if anything, you're being welcomed with more or less open arms.

I want you to be open about your sexuality, and I desire to hold a basic dialogue with you. However, I will continue to operate under the premise that homosexuality is a sin. This is not meant as a personal condemnation or to be personally demeaning, as we are all sinners and we all fall prey to sexual sin. Being gay doesn't make you better or worse than anyone else.

Thus, to that end, I would like to respectfully disagree on certain points:

Tea Ess wrote:
1). I'm gay. Whatever lifestyle I have will be a gay lifestyle, regardless of whether or not I ever date or marry.


If a heterosexual is celibate and never shows any romantic or sexual interest, then I would not classify them as living a heterosexual lifestyle. Amy Carmichael is a good example of this: technically she was probably heterosexual, but she never engaged in a heterosexual lifestyle. She showed "agape" love to everyone, and never showed interest in a heterosexual relationship.

Tea Ess wrote:
There are LGBT+ organizations, social groups, and in some cases shared cultural experiences, but none of those are universal or even necessarily representative of us overall.


This was more or less my point to Jo March. Gays who associate with the various organizations and political movements tend to get the most attention, and thus are the most predominant image many people have of homosexuals. My point was that not all gays are fit into the common stereotypes. "Coming out" isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Tea Ess wrote:
If your intention is to distinguish between celibate gay people and those who "associate with the rest of the LGBT+ community," that doesn't work either since there are organizations and groups that contain both perspectives.


So? There still is a difference between celibate gays and non-celibate gays.

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 Post subject: Re: A Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:41 pm 
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NinjaHunter wrote:
What do you think I'm trying to do on this thread? I've commended you for coming out, and I'm trying to figure out what you believe about homosexuality as a homosexual so that we can exchange ideas without trying to kill each other. No one here has told you to shut up or go away; if anything, you're being welcomed with more or less open arms.

Apologies, the last part of my post was not directed at you specifically or anything you said. As I said, I'm not interested in a debate over whether same gender relationships are inherently evil, at least in this thread and at this time.

NinjaHunter wrote:
I want you to be open about your sexuality, and I desire to hold a basic dialogue with you. However, I will continue to operate under the premise that homosexuality is a sin. This is not meant as a personal condemnation or to be personally demeaning, as we are all sinners and we all fall prey to sexual sin. Being gay doesn't make you better or worse than anyone else.

This doesn't do the situation justice. Telling straight people not to have sex outside of marriage is an incredibly, fundamentally different thing than mandating celibacy onto gay people. It's not just about sex. It's about finding another person you want to spend the rest of your life with, and engaging in a mutually loving and caring relationship.

NinjaHunter wrote:
If a heterosexual is celibate and never shows any romantic or sexual interest, then I would not classify them as living a heterosexual lifestyle. Amy Carmichael is a good example of this: technically she was probably heterosexual, but she never engaged in a heterosexual lifestyle. She showed "agape" love to everyone, and never showed interest in a heterosexual relationship.

Whether or not you can tell, there are definitely differences in our experiences in life depending on whether we are gay/straight/bi/ace/ect. Obviously someone's life is going to be markedly different if they embrace the calling of celibacy as opposed to finding a spouse/building a family. However, a celibate gay person will view the world through a fundamentally different lens than a celibate straight person (and, more often than not, be treated by others in a fundamentally different way), and their lifestyle will be shaped by that. This especially holds for celibate gay people who are public about their orientation or who commit to holding dialogue about homosexuality.

NinjaHunter wrote:
This was more or less my point to Jo March. Gays who associate with the various organizations and political movements tend to get the most attention, and thus are the most predominant image many people have of homosexuals. My point was that not all gays are fit into the common stereotypes. "Coming out" isn't necessarily a bad thing.

I would agree that people's views of gay people are definitely shaped by organizations and movements, and I would also add media. Even within those categories, though, there is great diversity for those who choose to look.

NinjaHunter wrote:
So? There still is a difference between celibate gays and non-celibate gays.

Yes, clearly there is. You can easily make that distinction like you did here. Making it about "the good gays" vs. "the rest of the LGBT community" is toxic and doesn't represent reality.

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 Post subject: Re: Ask Tea Ess things
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:20 pm 
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Why is the parrot eating broccoli? Why not green beans?

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 Post subject: Re: Ask Tea Ess things
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:37 pm 
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TheDoctor wrote:
Are you and Christian and if so what is your personal testimony. (If you don't want to share it thats fine)

I am, and it's still in the making.

Belle wrote:
Why is the parrot eating broccoli? Why not green beans?

Excellent question. \:D/ The parrot (his name is Pierre, by the way) is eating broccoli to promote healthy eating, a cause he's very dedicated to. He's not necessarily opposed to eating green beans, but whenever possible he prefers not to do photo shoots with foods lacking zinc. His wife nearly died from zinc deficiency, so he likes to pose with zinc-containing foods to help prevent that from happening to any of his parrot friends.

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 Post subject: Re: Ask Tea Ess things
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:51 pm 
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Tea Ess wrote:
Excellent question. \:D/ The parrot (his name is Pierre, by the way) is eating broccoli to promote healthy eating, a cause he's very dedicated to.

*munches on chocolate* Ahh, I see.

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 Post subject: Re: Ask Tea Ess things
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:58 pm 
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Chocolate has its own health benefits. :yes: It's bad for parrots though.

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 Post subject: Re: Ask Tea Ess things
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:26 pm 
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Well to restate my question when where you saved? What where the circumstances?

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 Post subject: Re: A Thread
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:24 pm 
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Whatever happens, we love you and care for you, Tea Ess. May I suggest the book Messy Grace by Caleb Kaltenbach? It is a remarkable book and has really helped me, too.
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 Post subject: Re: Ask Tea Ess things
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:35 pm 
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TheDoctor wrote:
Well to restate my question when where you saved? What where the circumstances?

Not my question, but I would like to note that salvation has never been a simple one time event in scripture. We have been saved, we are presently being saved as we continue in the Christian life, and we will be saved in the future when the Kingdom comes.

Do you miss college?

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 Post subject: Re: Ask Tea Ess things
PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:18 pm 
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Wait what do you mean by "we are presently being saved"? Also I'm asking about at what point did her life "turn around"?

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"If life is pain then I buried mine." -NF

"Please don't ask me how I've been
Don't make me play pretend
Oh what's the use
Please, I bet everybody here is fake happy too" -Paramore


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Is it true that pain is beauty?" -Melanie Martinez


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 Post subject: Re: Ask Tea Ess things
PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:02 pm 
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TheDoctor wrote:
Wait what do you mean by "we are presently being saved"? Also I'm asking about at what point did her life "turn around"?

Philippians 2:12
Quote:
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling

This verse is addressing those who already have surrendered their lives to Christ, and yet he instructs them to continue to presently work out their salvation. This means we continue on the path of humility and repentance and not get side-tracked by the snares of sins and other distractions. There is no "one saved always saved."

Tea Ess is a guy FYI. Not a "her."

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 Post subject: Re: Ask Tea Ess things
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:49 pm 
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tEA ESS. WHAT WOULD YOU DO IF THE GOVERNMENT WAS COMING FOR YOU. WHY WOULD THEY BE COMING FOR YOU.

what's your favorite fantasy character?

who would you cosplay as if you could? (regardless of difficulty, this is hypothetical wishing here)

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 Post subject: Re: Ask Tea Ess things
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:46 pm 
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TheDoctor wrote:
Well to restate my question when where you saved? What where the circumstances?

I was baptized in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit after I accepted Christ as my personal Savior when I was around 9. I believe the circumstances were quite typical when compared to the experiences of most white middle-class American evangelical children my age. Probably similar to yours.

As Miss Friendship said, there is no "once saved always saved," which seems to be the angle you're coming from. Regardless, the religious journeys of LGBT+ people don't magically become invalid after they come out. There are gay Christians, gay Muslims, gay Bahais, gay Buddhists, ect, ect. None of them just up and decided one day that being gay sounded fun, it's something that is innate to a person and cannot be changed. Most gay Christians go though years or even decades (though that's becoming more rare) of trying to repress their feelings, or just deny that they exist, like I did. That doesn't mean our salvation isn't real, it means that we were created differently.

Samantha14 wrote:
tEA ESS. WHAT WOULD YOU DO IF THE GOVERNMENT WAS COMING FOR YOU. WHY WOULD THEY BE COMING FOR YOU.

In the US? Most likely the cause would be a really stupid mistake on my part like forgetting to pay a speeding ticket or something. I'd panic for an unnecessary amount of time and pay for it eventually.

Samantha14 wrote:
what's your favorite fantasy character?

Nynaeve (pronounced nye-neeve) al'Meara from The Wheel of Time series. She's a very polarizing character, and one of the strongest magic users in the series. Pretty much everyone either loves her or hates her. She's undyingly loyal to those she considers under her protection, and she also has this sort of pragmatism and ability to get things done when so many other people in the series get bogged down by politics or fear. It's true that she can be irritating and ridiculously stubborn at times, but this has provided her with opportunity for growth that most other characters have lacked.

Samantha14 wrote:
who would you cosplay as if you could? (regardless of difficulty, this is hypothetical wishing here)

GREAT QUESTION. Assuming cost isn't an issue, and I have costume help, probably an elf from the the Lord of the Rings universe. My first idea was one of the High Elves, but it might actually be kind of cool to cosplay as one of the Avari or a Wood-elf or something.

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 Post subject: Re: Ask Tea Ess things
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:51 pm 
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Tea Ess wrote:
TheDoctor wrote:
Well to restate my question when where you saved? What where the circumstances?

I was baptized in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit after I accepted Christ as my personal Savior when I was around 9. I believe the circumstances were quite typical when compared to the experiences of most white middle-class American evangelical children my age. Probably similar to yours.

As Miss Friendship said, there is no "once saved always saved," which seems to be the angle you're coming from. Regardless, the religious journeys of LGBT+ people don't magically become invalid after they come out. There are gay Christians, gay Muslims, gay Bah'ais, gay Buddhists, ect, ect. None of them just up and decided one day that being gay sounded fun, it's something that is innate to a person and cannot be changed. Most gay Christians go though years or even decades (though that's becoming more rare) of trying to repress their feelings, or just deny that they exist, like I did. That doesn't mean our salvation isn't real, it means that we were created differently.


Wait what? What about the Bible Verse that says "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God” (1 Corinthians 6:9-10) So I would say that having gay thoughts or being attracted to the same sex is a sin but giving into those temptation is a sin.

And when you say "That doesn't mean our salvation isn't real, it means that we were created differently." When you say that you mean that God made you to struggle with different sins right? The Bible says "No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it." (1 Corinthians 10:13)

Also when you say "There is no once saved always saved." Doesn't it not make sense to be saved at one point then the next you're not? I would suggest the you click on the link down below and read this article and watch the video with it. I couldn't state it as well as they do. Also you seem to be stating a lot of points and facts, none of them backed up by the Bible. I would be very interested in seeing the Bible verses that you use to back up your claims. Thanks for talking!


Sincerely, Luke/The Doctor :)

https://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-lose-salvation.html

https://www.gotquestions.org/gay-Christian.html

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"Reality is a lovely place, but I wouldn't want to live there."-Adam Young

"If life is pain then I buried mine." -NF

"Please don't ask me how I've been
Don't make me play pretend
Oh what's the use
Please, I bet everybody here is fake happy too" -Paramore


"Houston Texas Baby!" -Beyonce

"Oh Mrs. Potato Head tell me,
Is it true that pain is beauty?" -Melanie Martinez


"WERK!" -The Schuyler Sisters


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 Post subject: Re: Ask Tea Ess things
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:12 pm 
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TheDoctor wrote:

gotquestions.org is the calvinist version of Yahoo Answers, and it has about as much credibility.

I'm not going to debate in my own Q&A thread, but I will do my best to respond in the "Sure, let's rehash this topic again" thread as time permits.

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