Communion: Open or Closed?

What do you believe and why? Here's the place to discuss anything relating to church and God.
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Connie G.
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MF and Countess are one in the same.
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Miss Friendship
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Connie G. wrote:MF and Countess are one in the same.
So it would seem.
jehoshaphat wrote:What I was trying to say that if Jesus had been talking literally about being the water of life and we have to drink him he it would've driven people away as well. I'm just trying to point out why Jesus was talking literally about being the bread of life and figuratively when talking about being a door.
Well if he literally meant the bread of life, I am going to assume that the water of life was literal too, otherwise #contradiction. Water and bread go together.
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jehoshaphat
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It's not a contradiction. What I am trying to say is that the reason people left Jesus when he said he was the bread of life was because he was talking literally and they didn't leave him when he said he was the water of life because he was talking figuratively. Also being the water of life is a symbol of baptism so in a way that could be literal as well but that is a totally different conversation.

Jesus never said if he was speaking literally or figuratively which is why we have to rely on the authority of the church to interpret for us and make sense of unclear situations.
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aragtaghooligan
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I have a few questions. Jehoshaphat, it seems to me you never really responded to Miss Friendship's worry that your view of communion turns it into a work/deed we have to do to "buy"(as she put it) grace which you have agreed is a gift from God. Maybe I missed your explanation, though I read the whole thread. Could you please clarify your thoughts on this point? Thank you.

Eleventh, where in the bible does it say we are to become gods.
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jehoshaphat
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It isn't buying grace but rather cooperating with it. Most Protestants believe in faith alone without any works to save whereas I believe we have to cooperate with grace and then do something about it to be received into God's plan. Nothing we can do will earn salvation I agree on that point but we still have to operate with that salvation and work with at becoming better people as it says in Phillipians 2:12 "Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,"
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aragtaghooligan
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Hmmmm I could never live by that belief because it would cause to much guilt/ anxiety/ and self hatred constantly wondering if I am doing it right and if I'm really saved. However, thank you for your explanation of your beliefs. I appreciate it! :)
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Eleventh Doctor
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Ragtag: Jesus said it in John 10
"The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.” Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods”’? If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?
The verse being referred to in the OT is Psalms 82:6
I said, “You are gods,
And all of you are children of the Most High.
We are called to be perfect just as Christ is perfect, to be children of the Most High.

http://www.antiochian.org/content/theos ... ine-nature

So Ragtag how do you interpret Philippians 2 then?
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aragtaghooligan
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Thanks for explaining that Eleventh. Well, the very next verse says "for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure." Therefore I feel that the preceding verse is saying that we need to open ourselves up to God so He may work in our hearts. After all, fear and trembling works as a description for someone coming to meet someone Great and worthy. I definitely think we should try to obey, but I don't think our salvation rests on our obedience, even our obedience in things such as being baptized or taking communion, as these are works and we cannot earn our salvation through works. I think obedience is just embracing God's way and opening up our hearts so He may change them. The differece is that sin is not the end of the world because we rest in knowing that we are forgiven. The difference is also that it is not through our sweat and tears that we are changed or through our participation in communion or baptism but through a miraculous change in our hearts.
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Eleventh Doctor
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I agree, our salvation does not rest on anything we do and we cannot earn our salvation. Grace is unearned and unmerited but I think embracing God's way and opening our hearts means participating in the sacraments, which are the means of His grace, so that we may have a miraculous change of heart.
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aragtaghooligan
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I have no argument to that. I don't even 100% disagree. However, thank you for the clarification of your beliefs :)
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