Is it lying, is it acting, is it God?

[Samantha14]

An interesting thought came to me when reading 1st Samuel 21 and Psalm 34, which was penned during this occasion. What exactly was happening was that David was fleeing from Saul, and took shelter in the Philistine region. But it was soon found out who he was, and he was brought before the king of Gath, whom he feared. So when he was there, he acted insane before King Achish, who disregarded him as insane, and let him go.

There are multiple opinions on this that I've heard. He was facing an enemy, and he was afraid. One of the opinions, which was noted in one of the Bible commentaries I read on Psalm 34, said that He trusted God and God gave him the strength to become this character before the king. Others say it was simply a military-esque strategy, a plan that was fulfilled on self-acting terms. And others say that it was self-acting terms out of fear, and that causing the king to believe that he was something he was not was technically a lie, and surely God would not have strengthened a lie. That when facing up to ones enemy, we should trust God and not react or defend or lie to save ourselves, or others, because God will always see us through in the utmost Holy and pure manor.

So what do you think?

[Woody]

Well, I imagine most people here know I believe it is okay, even right, to lie in some situations, particularly in the act of saving life(see this thread). And I would say that in some situations, including this one, yeah, it's okay to lie to save your skin. God directly ordered Samuel to lie in order to avoid Saul's wrath when he went to choose the new king(1 Sam. 16:2).

In regards to this particular situation, I would probably be in one of the first two categories, depending on how good an actor David was.

[Samantha14]

So...God would defy his own authority in order to fulfill his own plan?

Does this make God imperfect?

*Devil's advocate questions*

[Miss Friendship]

The Bible is clear that lying is a sin and is displeasing to God. The first sin in this world involved a lie told to Eve. The Ten Commandments given to Moses includes “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor” (Exodus 20:16).

In the early church, Ananias and Sapphira lied regarding a donation in order to make themselves look more generous than they really were. Peter’s rebuke is stern: “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit?” God’s judgment was sterner: the couple died as a result of their sin of lying.

Colossians 3:9 says, “Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices.” Lying is listed in 1 Timothy 1:9-11 as something practiced by the lawless. Furthermore, liars will be among those judged in the end (Revelation 21:8). In contrast, God never lies (Titus 1:2). He is the source of truth. “It is impossible for God to lie” (Hebrews 6:18).

Jesus called Himself the way, the truth, and the life (John 14:6), and He expects those who follow Him to be people of truth. The truth is to be expressed in love (Ephesians 4:15), offering hope to those seeking redemption from the lies of the world

I just read this and it sounded right. Also, I think there should be a distinction between OT and NT. Sins that at one time God might have let go because of ignorance, He now has set in stone.

[Samantha14]

But God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. The infinite. So how exactly did God change, or just change his mind?

[TigerShadow]

I think that what happened was that God planned for David to escape Achish and David chose to do so by lying. This seems to me like a small part of a much broader question concerning the sovereignty of God, specifically in relation to how much control He chooses to exert over our actions. I think that He knew that David was going to see lying as the only way out, and even though that's not the kind of thing that God exactly promotes, He allowed it to happen to further His own plans. (Besides, we only see what David produced while rejoicing that he made it out alive; we don't know if he also asked for forgiveness and mercy from God because of his sin.) Just because God doesn't like sin or its consequences doesn't mean that He won't use them—remember, this is the same God who allowed Satan to do almost anything he wanted to Job to test Job's faith and refused to remove the unspecified thorn in Paul's flesh.

[HomeschoolCowgirl]

. God directly ordered Samuel to lie in order to avoid Saul's wrath when he went to choose the new king(1 Sam. 16:2).

In regards to this particular situation, I would probably be in one of the first two categories, depending on how good an actor David was.

It wasn't exactly a lie: Samuel did make a sacrifice. It's just, that wasn't all he did.

[Woody]

It was still deception, to be sure. In fact, I would say it's more of a lie than faking insanity...

[Blitz]

David wasn't even supposed to go to Achish in the first place, anyway. Samuel probably never even had to tell King Saul anything. Samuel asked in case he had to to. Also, his was already going to sacrifice anyway.

[Tarol]

Okay, so about the verse Woody brought up... I remembered reading that verse myself and thinking "God told Samuel to lie?" I then read a commentary on this chapter. The book is The Bible Story Handbook by John Walton, an Old Testament scholar. On page 160 of his book, Walton says:

God tells Samuel to lie? (1 Sam. 16:2-3). Samuel was concerned about his life, and God understood Samuel's concern. The sacrifice that God instructed Samuel to use for a cover story is not meaningless-that is what Samuel was going to do. But he was also going to anoint the next king, Saul's replacement. This incident is descriptive of Samuel's fears.

Then, a little later, on page 162, he writes:

This incident is descriptive of Samuel's fears, not an attempt to offer guide-lines for truth-telling or instruct on how to get through sticky ethical dilemmas.

I hope that helps a little with that....

Now, I'm a little surprised MF hasn't, kind of, gone crazy on this one... I believe (she can speak for herself though) that she would say when you are in a place where you need to defend yourself, you should trust God and not react or lie to save yourself... I'm not quite sure what you are specifically asking for though Sam: are you are asking for a lying debate or...what? Maybe I'm just bad at reading things, and need the actual subject completely spelled out for me to understand...

[Miss Friendship]

I am not going "crazy" because in the thread Woody cited I said everything to be said and basically proved how all lying is wrong at all times. And I am too lazy to go into that again, I guess.

Yes, lying is always wrong, and God would never want us to delibritely sin.