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 Post subject: Re: Christian vs. Catholic
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:43 pm 
Coffee Biscotti
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The answer is, it is both true that Mary did and didn't give birth to God in the fullest sense. God doesn't exist in time. Therefor, to be brought into time, Jesus was, as we know, born as the result of a finite being.

God's finite existence has a definite earthly starting point and end.

There's no debate there. It's simple logic. And, so, yes. And, so, Mary was pure, and never sinned. She could have, naturally, but simply chose not to. This is implausible, but it happened, (though no other human but Jesus likely has ever come close.) To quote Bryan Davis, "light and darkness can have no fellowship."
So, here's the basics:
1. Mary was "saved" by Jesus at birth by being conceived without original sin
2. Mary never sinned after that, and so Jesus was born from her. After all, otherwise, it would be like the President coming in a dangerous, rickety old wagon that could dump him any second.

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 Post subject: Re: Christian vs. Catholic
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:51 pm 
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Pound Foolish wrote:
The answer is, it is both true that Mary did and didn't give birth to God in the fullest sense. God doesn't exist in time. Therefor, to be brought into time, Jesus was, as we know, born as the result of a finite being.

God's finite existence has a definite earthly starting point and end.

There's no debate there. It's simple logic. And, so, yes. And, so, Mary was pure, and never sinned. She could have, naturally, but simply chose not to. This is implausible, but it happened, (though no other human but Jesus likely has ever come close.) To quote Bryan Davis, "light and darkness can have no fellowship."
So, here's the basics:
1. Mary was "saved" by Jesus at birth by being conceived without original sin
2. Mary never sinned after that, and so Jesus was born from her. After all, otherwise, it would be like the President coming in a dangerous, rickety old wagon that could dump him any second.


well How about those Bible verses saying all have sinned?? Mary was born with sinful nature like everyone else.

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 Post subject: Re: Christian vs. Catholic
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:19 pm 
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Yes, I concur with gabby. You can hypothesize all you want about how it supposedly worked out, but you don't have any Scriptural support. So, I can't accept that belief.

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 Post subject: Re: Christian vs. Catholic
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:04 am 
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Pound Foolish wrote:
There's no debate there. It's simple logic. And, so, yes. And, so, Mary was pure, and never sinned. She could have, naturally, but simply chose not to. This is implausible, but it happened


I think the real problem here is that you haven't showed any of us any Scripture to back up this claim. We've all posted several references refuting the point, according to your "simple logic", there isn't any debate here. Well, according to the logic I generally live by, a point needs to have a least one credible alibi for it to even be plausible. The only thing we have to go on here so far is your word, and considering you weren't around during Mary's life, that's just not good enough.

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 Post subject: Re: Christian vs. Catholic
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:03 pm 
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Here are a few links that explain far better then I could ever. Also Christian why shouldn't I bring up that verse? http://www.cuf.org/faithfacts/details_view.asp?ffID=100 http://www.catholic.com/magazine/articl ... ithout-sin

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 Post subject: Re: Christian vs. Catholic
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:37 pm 
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God's Girl wrote:
Figured I'd quote what I posted in the debating thread:

God's Girl wrote:
So, what do you guys think about what Mormon's believe? (I just want to say that I have absolutely nothing against anyone who is Mormon, just that it is different for what I believe)

Mormons and Christians believe many of the same things, but the big difference between their beliefs and mine is the fact that they believe that doing good gets you into heaven. The bible says specifically in Ephesians 2:8 & 9:
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the free gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast."

So, what do you guys think? If there are any Mormons on here, I would love to discuss things like this with you! :)



Hey God's Girl. I really appreciate your perspective on this. I'm sick of discrimination against Mormons. I'm not a Mormon, but I've known Mormons and been to there church and I respect them.

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 Post subject: Re: Christian vs. Catholic
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:46 pm 
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Sage wrote:
Hey God's Girl. I really appreciate your perspective on this. I'm sick of discrimination against Mormons. I'm not a Mormon, but I've known Mormons and been to there church and I respect them.


Thank you. Even though I think that Mormons are wrong, (along with all other world religions; Hindu, Buddhism, Islam, Jehovah's Witnesses) I don't hate them, and respecting them is the first step in gaining ground to bring them to Christ.

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 Post subject: Re: Christian vs. Catholic
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:43 pm 
yes Catholicism is a completely different religion that mixs christianity and very secular beliefs together thats why it was so sucessful i recommend everyone watch the "Know Your Enemy" seires he talks alot on this topic aswell as others


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 Post subject: Re: Christian vs. Catholic
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:47 pm 
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I can't take the time to explain anything, but, we Catholics believe everything that Christians do, plus more. We are definetely not a different religion. A lot of us call ourselves Catholic Christians. And we don't mix with secular beliefs...

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 Post subject: Re: Christian vs. Catholic
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:51 pm 
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maradog12 wrote:
I can't take the time to explain anything, but, we Catholics believe everything that Christians do, plus more. We are definetely not a different religion. A lot of us call ourselves Catholic Christians. And we don't mix with secular beliefs...


However, some of the things that some Catholics believe is wrong.

This is why it is very important not to lump all Catholics together, saying that they all are wrong or all right.

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 Post subject: Re: Christian vs. Catholic
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:54 pm 
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Yes, all denominations or religions have people who say they are that denomination, and believe something that not everybody believes. Not just Catholics, but also others. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Christian vs. Catholic
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:56 pm 
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Ok, I have a question for you Catholics.

How do you believe you get to heaven?


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 Post subject: Re: Christian vs. Catholic
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:57 pm 
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Quote:
However, some of the things that some Catholics believe is wrong.

Do please give some examples so that I may amuse myself with laughing in your face and correcting you.

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 Post subject: Re: Christian vs. Catholic
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:59 pm 
Lemon Meringue
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Ummm.....

1. Worshipping/praying to Mary


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 Post subject: Re: Christian vs. Catholic
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:02 pm 
there i also alot! of sun symblism


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 Post subject: Re: Christian vs. Catholic
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:06 pm 
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Pound Foolish wrote:
Quote:
However, some of the things that some Catholics believe is wrong.

Do please give some examples so that I may amuse myself with laughing in your face and correcting you.


How about I get back to you on that? My friend has many Catholic family members, and I'll ask her some of them. I know she has a lot.

Wretched Sinner wrote:
1. Worshipping/praying to Mary


Better rephrased as: Thinking Mary was holy and without sin.

(Technically, some of the thing some Christians believe is wrong too, so I see no need for you to think that I am talking to your personally, PF, BTW.)

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 Post subject: Re: Christian vs. Catholic
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:09 pm 
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I was hoping someone would say that. The commonality of that misconception among protestants is sad, but funny somehow. In the first place, have you ever found yourself talking to a dead relative or friend? If you don't have one who you're close to, believe me, when you do, you shall. It's just natural.
That's a form of prayer.
But are you worshipping them? Nope. Are you sinning? Nope.
Mary's our mother. And she gave birth to our Lord Jesus Christ. She wept at his dying breath and carried him in her womb.
I love my mom.
There's nothing wrong with saying "hi" once in a while.
We don't worship her. Ever. Worship is: "Oh, almighty Thor, thou art the power and the might!" Prayer is: "Mary, we honor you, and we love you."
Apart from prayer, we do nothing for Mary that isn't done for presidents. We erect statues for her, write songs inspired by her, have rituals involving flowers, and so on. Yes. We pray. Yes. Worship? Not unless it's worship to give someone some flowers.
That was fun. Anyone else?

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Last edited by Pound Foolish on Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:29 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Christian vs. Catholic
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:10 pm 
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I do believe that the stand on abortion that the Catholic church has taken is a good one. A great one. I mean, you can be against abortion and everything, but if you don't do anything....
At the Pro-life rally in Ottawa, which I have been to twice, we were on the bus. Nearly everyone on the bus was Catholic. And Catholic schools were there and everything. Which was great.
PF,others, is your church similar?
Besides very few things, practiced by not all the Catholics, I don't quite see anything wrong with the beliefs. I mean, yes, every denomination has their quirks, even within a church, or a network of churches, there can be different beliefs. I know this.


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 Post subject: Re: Christian vs. Catholic
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:13 pm 
Lemon Meringue
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PF, quick question. What do you believe the way to heaven is?


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 Post subject: Re: Christian vs. Catholic
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:21 pm 
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The thing I have the most "problems" with, is confusing to a Man (A human being just like you, who sins just like you) and not going straight to God, and asking forgiveness. I believe I you have wronged someone then yes by all means go to them and ask for forgiveness, but why does your "preacher" need to know you stole a cookie last Friday night???

(I do not mean to argue with you, I just wish to understand your point of view.)

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