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 Post subject: Re: Christian vs. Catholic
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:57 pm 
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jehoshaphat wrote:
gabbygirl17 wrote:
Well Cathilocs believe Mary was holy when she wasn't They have to pray for the saints (St.Mark) To ask God for something.

Mary is holy, have you heard of Luke 1:28? It says "Hail Mary full of grace." Grace is the opposite of sin if something is full of grace then there is no sin there. also Catholics do not pray TO saints we ask them to intercede on our behalf it is just like asking friends and family to pray for us... that is my two cents if you have any questions ask.


But I was told that Mary is above Jesus ?? I mean u don't need to worship her. Mary probley had sinned in her life and how can the saints intercede for u?? Why can't u just pray to God?

-- Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:59 pm --

Aaron Wiley wrote:
gablerbage8 wrote:
I think that Catholic is okay, as long as they believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross, and that he is the son of God, they will go to heaven.


Is that all it takes to get to heaven? If so, I guess we'll be seeing a lot of demons up there too.

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New Living Translation (©2007)

James 2:19
You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror.


The deciding factor of whether or not someone goes to heaven (according to the Bible) is not if they believe God exists or not, but rather, it is based on whether they choose to put their faith in the fact that Jesus died on the cross for their sins, and that they can't get to heaven on their own merit - salvation by works doesn't exist.


I agree u can't get to Heaven without salvation.

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 Post subject: Re: Christian vs. Catholic
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:12 pm 
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The information you were given is incorrect. We do pray to God but we also ask the saints who are in heaven to intercede on our behalf.

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 Post subject: Re: Christian vs. Catholic
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:20 pm 
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The requirments for going to Heaven are acceptance of God as your Father and Savior either when you die or at your time of judgment. If you reject God, you go to Hell. As Whit put it "God doesn't stop us from going to Heaven. We stop ourselves." It's hard to imagine some would be so enamoured with their sinful ways they'd deny God, but if you do, you simply can't go to Heaven. And if you love God, and accept him into your heart, even if before your life has been sheer crud, God can bring you to him. I don't care if it's your last breath. You can take Jesus back into you with it. You're his child.
You DON'T need to have lived your life a certain way, or have a specific belief system.
You can kill, you can do every kind of s**aul sin. But if you truly repent and accept God, he'll take you home.

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 Post subject: Re: Christian vs. Catholic
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:29 pm 
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jehoshaphat wrote:
The information you were given is incorrect. We do pray to God but we also ask the saints who are in heaven to intercede on our behalf.



Another question: why do ya have to ask them to intercede?

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 Post subject: Re: Christian vs. Catholic
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:23 pm 
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@ Jehoshaphat or Pound Foolish: Do you believe that Mary was blameless and perfect? Did she never sin, just like Jesus? Did God choose her to bear Jesus because she was without sin? Or did she need to be saved, just as much as the rest of us do?

I can agree that she was holy, just like we as Christians are called "saints" and "holy ones" in many places in the Bible. But was she really perfect?

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 Post subject: Re: Christian vs. Catholic
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:11 pm 
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@ Gabby we ask them to go before God for us because they are with him.
I believe Mary is blameless and perfect, she never sinned, God called her and she accepted, and no she did not need to be "saved"

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 Post subject: Re: Christian vs. Catholic
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:14 pm 
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jehoshaphat wrote:
@ Gabby we ask them to go before God for us because they are with him.
I believe Mary is blameless and perfect, she never sinned, God called her and she accepted, and no she did not need to be "saved"


So, what about Romans 3:10?
Quote:
As it is written:

“There is none righteous, no, not one"

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 Post subject: Re: Christian vs. Catholic
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:44 pm 
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as well as romans 3:23 and 24
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

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 Post subject: Re: Christian vs. Catholic
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:56 pm 
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jehoshaphat wrote:
@ Gabby we ask them to go before God for us because they are with him.
I believe Mary is blameless and perfect, she never sinned, God called her and she accepted, and no she did not need to be "saved"


Why not? She's human isnt she? like the verses say above. It dosent say we all except Mary or Jesus mother

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 Post subject: Re: Christian vs. Catholic
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:45 am 
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Would you care to give any biblical support for your claim that Mary was perfect, Jehoshaphat? I see that others have already posted verses which say that no one is even good, let alone perfect. Mary inherited the sinful nature from Adam just like the rest of us. Where do you get the idea that she was perfect in any way? And please don't just use the "Hail, Mary, full of grace" line again. ;)

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Jeremiah 13:23
Ezekiel 36:26-27
Ephesians 2:4-10

God has done the impossible! He has, in effect, changed a leopard's spots into stripes! He turned me, one who was accustomed to do evil, into one who can walk in good works! He brought me to life from the dead and gave me His Spirit, in order to cause me to walk in His statutes! He has totally changed me, and it is all for His glory!


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 Post subject: Re: Christian vs. Catholic
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:13 am 
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@Gabby do you think that Mary was the mother of God?
@ Christian, Think about it, God abhors sin and Mary is the mother of God, if Jesus was in Mary's womb then she had to be blameless otherwise God could not have been in her. Here is an analogy, you wouldn't great wine into a broken cup, otherwise it would all spill out, just so God couldn't be conceived by a sinful person.

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 Post subject: Re: Christian vs. Catholic
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:29 am 
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@Jehoshophat I think you're missing the point, the whole idea that God sent his son into a sinful unholy world was supposed to be humbling. Jesus was obviously able to be in PHYSICAL contact with sinners, or else he wouldn't have been able to do nearly anything he did when he was on earth.

Also, Mary wasn't the mother of God, in the sense that she literally was the one that birthed a timeless God into existence. God already existed in all three of his parts before Mary was even created. She was but a tool, used by an eternal God to do his work. If God could only use totally holy people, God could use no one, because as we know, all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. ALL. That doesn't say "everyone except Mary, because she was the mother of Jesus and stuff".

My response to your analogy: God can do whatever the heck he wants. He's God. He'll use broken cups for his wine just to SPITE our logic.

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 Post subject: Re: Christian vs. Catholic
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:42 am 
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I believe Catholics differ from other denominations in several ways, but ultimately, they're still Christians, and will enter the pearly gates when their time comes.

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 Post subject: Re: Christian vs. Catholic
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:01 pm 
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jehoshaphat wrote:
@Gabby do you think that Mary was the mother of God?
@ Christian, Think about it, God abhors sin and Mary is the mother of God, if Jesus was in Mary's womb then she had to be blameless otherwise God could not have been in her. Here is an analogy, you wouldn't great wine into a broken cup, otherwise it would all spill out, just so God couldn't be conceived by a sinful person.


No she wasn't the mother of God. God was here before anyone she was te mother of Jesus

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 Post subject: Re: Christian vs. Catholic
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:55 pm 
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Hmmm. The guy who wrote that part of the Bible is one dirty liar then. Boy, what a let down.

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 Post subject: Re: Christian vs. Catholic
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:59 pm 
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Pound Foolish wrote:
Hmmm. The guy who wrote that part of the Bible is one dirty liar then. Boy, what a let down.


What do u mean?

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 Post subject: Re: Christian vs. Catholic
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:38 pm 
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You know the part that said and Mary gave birth the Emmanuel. Mary was the mother of Jesus and Jesus is God so why would Mary not be the Mother of God? Gabby you don't think that Jesus is God?

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 Post subject: Re: Christian vs. Catholic
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:49 pm 
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She's the mother of God in the sense that she gave birth to him as a physical being, but according to John, God already existed in all 3 parts "in the beginning". Mary birthed Jesus' body, but God existed completely on his own before even Mary was conceived.

Also, like I said, Mary didn't need to be holy to be in physical contact with Jesus, just like any other person didn't need to be holy to touch Jesus after he was borne.

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 Post subject: Re: Christian vs. Catholic
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:50 pm 
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I think what she was trying to say was that Mary was not the progenitor of God Almighty, the Lord of heaven and earth, Who never had a beginning, let alone a birth by a woman. Mary was merely the vessel that God used to form and carry the human nature of His Son. In no way did she give birth to God, in the fullest sense of the title.

With regard to her having to be perfect in order to carry God, there is a solution to that problem. The Bible says that the Holy Spirit overshadowed her to conceive Jesus. He sanctified her womb. There was nothing sinless or perfect about her. God chose a broken vessel to carry His Son, and He purified her womb so that no sin could touch Jesus as He developed.

The bottom line is this: The Bible says that there is no one without sin, no not one. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. I believe that. Apparently you don't.

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Jeremiah 13:23
Ezekiel 36:26-27
Ephesians 2:4-10

God has done the impossible! He has, in effect, changed a leopard's spots into stripes! He turned me, one who was accustomed to do evil, into one who can walk in good works! He brought me to life from the dead and gave me His Spirit, in order to cause me to walk in His statutes! He has totally changed me, and it is all for His glory!


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 Post subject: Re: Christian vs. Catholic
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:22 pm 
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jehoshaphat wrote:
You know the part that said and Mary gave birth the Emmanuel. Mary was the mother of Jesus and Jesus is God so why would Mary not be the Mother of God? Gabby you don't think that Jesus is God?



Jesus is 100% God but he came to earth for us and became man. I was meaning she wasnt a holy god and couldnt be here before God. God was here first but Jesus BECAME man,

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