Wealth and the Kingdom of the God

[Eleventh Doctor]

It is simplistic to say that steady hard work can make more money for certain than businesses or jobs that require investments. Investments are not only the stock market, if I want to start a restaurant I have to invest money in equipment, property rental, utilities, food stocks, advertising, and staff. I am putting out money in the hope of getting a larger return for my money. Is that wrong? Should I instead just work really hard at a minimum wage job? Your own brother is getting an education in IT, why is he investing money in education? Isn't that education part of the world?

Okay so farmers don't need internet, so if they have it aren't they spending money they should be spending on the poor?

So if I plan for medical emergencies I'm not stepping out in faith? Just to clarify.

[Miss Friendship]

OK, yeah I can understand where you are coming from. "You have to put something in to get something out" would go with that I believe. There are different extremes of investing? Are you investing to get rich or to make a living? We invest in the worlds system all the time...everyday maybe. We buy, we do, everything in the world... How could we live otherwise? So it takes a bit of effort to start considering that investment in heaven and less investing on earth is a possibility.

My brother took two tests at the college which had a sum with each but other than that he studied everything on his own. Education of the world? I wouldn't put it like that...just because the world promotes something doesn't mean it isn't for the Christian as well. Now if you took solely the worlds version of education you'd find some flaws....

I won't comment on the farmer. If I say he should give, I would be judging. If I say he can have whatever he feels his conscience allows, you might say I am being inconsistent.

(Internet is really a wonderful tool and saves me money all the time. I am not taking away that it has a lot of sin tied up with it, but you can use it in a profitable good way as well. Which I am sure you all agree with)

Saving for medical emergencies takes faith---faith that you are going to have some terrible accidents in the future.

On the serious side, I would say you are trusting in the arm of flesh to save you as well as God. Don't get me wrong though, its between you and God what you do with your money. That's just my opinion.

[Blitz]

Kindly respond to my early post. And now I am going to blow through the Luke 18. I recently did a devotion on that chapter. It is not what you think it is. Lets start off. The young rich ruler would be equivalent to today's politician, Smart, athletic, rich. He is pretty much assured he is going to Heaven. He comes to Jesus to reassure himself of his going to heaven. “All these I have kept since I was a boy,” he said" when Jesus asks him if he has kept the law.

Jesus then sees his problem, his self-reliance. Therefore Jesus forces him into a position by telling him he should give up his wealth to show him he cannot possibly achieve heaven. Later on the disciples ask Jesus the question and responds with the line you keep toting around. You forget what comes next though. This essensially makes it impossible for anyone to get saved. I mean an eye of a needle is way smaller than a camel. Even a regular person could never fit through the eye of a needle. No one can get save then. Oh no wait.
Those who heard this asked, “Who then can be saved?”

27 Jesus replied, “What is impossible with man is possible with God.”

Therefore, it destroys your whole argument. You are rich in every way yourself compared to me. I am rich in every way compared to the regular person here and so it goes on.

[Eleventh Doctor]

On the serious side, I would say you are trusting in the arm of flesh to save you as well as God. Don't get me wrong though, its between you and God what you do with your money. That's just my opinion.

So where does that stop? That hospital where your brother had his surgery has a lot of expensive equipment that was bought to make money and to make the surgeon and the hospitals investors rich. Was it wrong of them to do that?

[SirWhit]

MF have you listened to The Poor Rich Guy (an AIO episode)?

[Miss Friendship]

So where does that stop? That hospital where your brother had his surgery has a lot of expensive equipment that was bought to make money and to make the surgeon and the hospitals investors rich. Was it wrong of them to do that?

You make me laugh! Those surgeons and doctors aren't following Jesus commands....the world is going to love wealth and money. You got to understand Jesus's way is going to look crazy to the rest of the world, and its not a path well traveled at all.

Blitz, can specify what earlier post?

Also, please read this. Anyone who wishes to continue this conversation, should read this first.

http://www.christianbiblereference.org/faq_money.htm

That's wonderful you did a study and Luke. But what about what the other gospels have to say about wealth? The rich young ruler is not an isolated case. Or what the whole Bible has to say for that matter. The link above addresses your interpretion of Luke 18

[Wakko]

MF have you listened to The Poor Rich Guy (an AIO episode)?

I second this question.

[Miss Friendship]

MF have you listened to The Poor Rich Guy (an AIO episode)?

Yes I have... I didn't really agree with the conclusion, but it was OK.

[Eleventh Doctor]

So would you have rather those surgeons and hospitals and equipment didn't exist?

[SirWhit]

So where does that stop? That hospital where your brother had his surgery has a lot of expensive equipment that was bought to make money and to make the surgeon and the hospitals investors rich. Was it wrong of them to do that?

You make me laugh! Those surgeons and doctors aren't following Jesus commands....the world is going to love wealth and money. You got to understand Jesus's way is going to look crazy to the rest of the world, and its not a path well traveled at all.

How dare they help people recover from illnesses and save people's lives!

[Mr. Yorp]

Most missionaries are supported by a church or group of churches... Everybody make lots of money so we can invest in the Kingdom of God.

@ 11th why should we retire? So we can sit around and be lazy? Go to Bahamas and play? RV around the country to have a second childhood?

[Eleventh Doctor]

Did I say any of those things?

Why should we be alive? So we can murder, steal, and lie? According to your logic we shouldn't be alive.

[Blitz]

Here it is again.

I don't even technically have clean water.... Anyway... MF, does God even really need us to fight Satan? A nope. With one word he do away with Satan's very existence.
MF, you say that our giving should have to do with how much we have left. That is completely against what the Bible teaches. Giving is a form of worship. Therefore it is never about the quantity but the heart. If I give all my goods to feed the poor and have not charity it profits me NOTHING. Therefore it is not about the quantity.
You can never give enough. Never. You are far from giving up a lot. Have you left family behind, friends, comfort? Giving is more than just money, way more.
Your whole argument falls to "With God all things are possible." That is where God's ultimate grace comes in. No one on this earth can give enough. God doesn't even need it; He wants us to give. Amount means nothing.

May you also please specify what else the gospels say about wealth?

[Miss Friendship]

So would you have rather those surgeons and hospitals and equipment didn't exist?

I am very glad they exist. My opinion wouldn't matter however.... The world takes care of of the worlds problems.... But my point is they are apart of a different kingdom so why expect them to be giving Christians?

[SirWhit]

So you believe it's impossible for there to be a Christian surgeon?

[Blitz]

Or wrong. I mean she doesn't even believe in Christian police officers.

[Miss Friendship]

I thought you were talking about expensive hospitals, and all doctors and nurses in generals. Of course a surgeon can serve God and follow Jesus. I'm just saying the majority probably don't. Besides its not the surgeon who invests money into the hospital, isn't that the government?

About your post Blitz.... I thought I did respond... at least to some of it before.

God doesn't even need it;

God doesn't need our money, but Jesus, in the form of the poor and needy, does. Ok, so we can never give enough, is that an excuse for not giving?

Giving is more than just money, way more.

Giving is more than just money, you're right, but right now we are only talking about money, so thats what the focus is on.

May you also please specify what else the gospels say about wealth?

Well, I should have pointed out earlier that in the very next chapter of Luke, after the "with God all things are possible" a rich man is brought into the Kingdom. His name was Zacchaeus, and Jesus said, after Zacchaeus resolved to give his money away, "Salvation has come to this house."

Lay not up for yourselves treasures on earth (Mt. 6:19).

Therefore take no thought saying, What shall we eat? or
What shall we drink? or Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
(For after all these things do the Gentiles seek) (Mt. 6:31-
32).

For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also
(Mt. 6:21).

Luke 12:33--Jesus talking to his disciples
Sell that ye have, and give alms (KJV).
Sell your possessions and give to the poor (NIV).
Sell your possessions and give to charity (NASB).

But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven (Mt. 6:20).

Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags
which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not,
where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth. Lk. 12:33

He that hath two coats, let him impart unto him that hath
none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise (Lk. 3:11).

And all that believed were together, and had all things
common; and sold their possessions and goods, and parted
them to all men, as every man had need (Acts 2:44–45).

Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as
many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and
brought the prices of the things that were sold, and laid
them down at the apostles’ feet: and distribution was made
to every man according as he had need (Acts 4:34–35).

He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich
he hath sent empty away (Lk. 1:53).

But woe unto you that are rich! For ye have received your
consolation (Lk. 6:24).

But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime
receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil
things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented
(Lk. 16:25).

Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries
that shall come upon you. Your riches are corrupted, and
your garments are moth-eaten. Your gold and silver is
cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against
you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped
treasure together for the last days. . . . Ye have lived in
pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have
nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter (Jas. 5:1–3,
5).

They that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare . . .
but thou, O man of God, flee these things (1 Tim. 6:9, 11).

Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods,
and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art
wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked
(Rev. 3:17).

That isn't particularly all from the Gospels, but a lot of verses that talk on wealth. Look at it this way. "If you ask a Christian, "Do you desire to have more assets by the end of this year then you did last year?" And they say "yes" is that not a violation of Matthew 6:19? Is this not the very definition of the word "covetousness?"

[Eleventh Doctor]

All hospitals are expensive. Some hospitals are funded by the government but many are privately funded for profit, with some non-profits. Why do you think the majority probably don't?

[Miss Friendship]

Luke 13:13-14

"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

[Eleventh Doctor]

Okay, touche but that's speaking about people in general.