Eastern Orthodox Q&A

[Bethany Shepard]

Very interesting. For the Easter service, do they have a dark vestment to symbol Jesus's suffering before they change to white?

Do you have to wear anything specific? Or just normal church clothes?

Is a regular church service on Saturday or Sunday?

[Eleventh Doctor]

Yes, during our Pascha service the clergy wear dark vestments. Our Pascha service starts 11:30 PM on Saturday and then after Midnight on Pascha they switch to the white vestments.

Just normal church clothes.

We have a short Vespers service on Saturday then our Liturgy where we take communion or the Eucharist on Sunday.

[Pound Foolish]

So, on the Catholic Q&A Thread, you said something to affect of that the Orthodox church as records going to back to the Apostles. Naturally, I thought, "What the heck!? No you don't. Only we do, you pretentious upstart whippersnapper church!"

Would you mind citing some records that show your existence goes back so far? ("Mind." Yeah right, you'll love it. )

[Eleventh Doctor]

We both came from the Apostles, I don't deny that you have Apostolic records as well. But when we split, whoever split from whom that's another debate, we kept our records of the Sees of the East and you kept yours from the Sees of the West. I thought that was common knowledge?

[Pound Foolish]

Gotcha. Thanks. I know you think we split from you, but didn't realize you claimed documentation of the Catholic church as your own. Though, upon reflection, if you accept the premise we Catholics split off, that logically follows.

But why do you fellows think we broke off you anyway? I may be biting off more than I can chew with that question, I understand the idea we were the ones breaking off is hard to disprove.

[Eleventh Doctor]

We think you broke off because you were the ones that changed the Nicene Creed without an Ecumenical Council.

But my point is whether you think we broke away or you broke away the fact still stands that there was One Holy Catholic and Apostolic before the schism made up of the the bishoprics that would one day make up the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches. After the schism the two sides kept their respective documentation and properties.

What do you think happened?

[Doll]

I realize that is the stance Roman Catholics take, it is one shared by Orthodox. The question is not meant for Roman Catholic, it is to gauge the Protestants acceptance of Roman Catholics as Christians.

But even thought they would allow it, you wouldn't do it..

Now I am curious, what are your rules about communion for non Roman Catholics or Orthodox?

[Eleventh Doctor]

We would not take communion outside our church.

We practice closed communion. You must be Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox to take communion at the respective churches.

[Doll]

We would not take communion outside our church.

We practice closed communion. You must be Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox to take communion at the respective churches.

Okay. *nods*

While my church practices open communion, that makes sense to me.

What are your rules for outsiders attending your services? What would one expect, or be expected to do. (Say if I went to your service..)

[Eleventh Doctor]

We encourage outsiders to attend our services. You are not expected to do anything special, besides show common courtesy that you would show at any religious service.

[Doll]

We encourage outsiders to attend our services. You are not expected to do anything special, besides show common courtesy that you would show at any religious service.

What is the order of events in a normal service for you?

[Eleventh Doctor]

The service has two main parts, the reading of the Gospel & Epistles and the Eucharist. Both parts include hymns and prayers. In between the two there is a short 7-15 minute sermon. You can see the entire service here: http://www.goarch.org/chapel/liturgical ... turgy_hchc

[Pound Foolish]

Good Dr., I hope you don't mind if I just give you an article that appears in The Essential Catholic Survival Guide. It's the most detailed account I've read of the origins of the Eastern church.

http://www.catholic.com/tracts/eastern-orthodoxy

[Eleventh Doctor]

I think they play up the power of the Emperor over the Eastern Church too much, they had a close relationship and there is always politics but I haven't heard of one claiming to be equal in authority to the Apostles. In fact I have never heard anyone claim that, there is Equal to the Apostles but that is something else entirely.

I agree with the second portion of the article under 1054 and All That, same with Attempts at Reconciliation.

The Filoque couldn't have been affirmed by an Ecumenical Council since the Eastern Church didn't participate. The point that the Orthodox test is unworkable doesn't hold water since clearly the first Seven Ecumenical Councils were approved in such a way.

As for the Pope's Authority, we've had this discussion before and you know mine and the Orthodox's position. These arguments are not new.

I do hope that one day we can be reunited.

[Pound Foolish]

How are the various forms of Orthodox similar and dissimilar? If someone's already asked that, please feel free to just tell which page that's on.

[jehoshaphat]

We talked about the great schism in my religion class today. I would still say the you broke off from us because of our supposed "change" of the Nicene Creed. What I understood on this subject is that it was a clarification and not a change that was added and was a widely held belief by both sides. What the Eastern Orthodox quote is when a council declared no one to change the creed. Also the patriarch of Constantinople was often chosen by the emperor ho practiced a thing called caeseropapism.

[Eleventh Doctor]

@PF The differences are mostly cosmetic, it largely has to do with musical and artistic differences all though most forms are largely based off the Byzantine forms. Musically the three main forms are Byzantine, Slavic, and Antiochian. Different feasts are emphasized in different traditions, for example the Russian churches make a big deal of Pentecost while Romanians emphasize Christmas. There are many similarities, the Liturgy we use is the same everywhere in it's basic form. Our dogmatic theologies are the same, obviously. I've been to Greek, Romanian, Antiochian, Russian, Western Rite Orthodox, and Ukrainian services and I've felt at home in all of them.

@jehoshaphat There was an anathema issued by both sides. So maybe we can agree we both decided to go our separate ways?

I'm not versed enough in the specifics of caeseropapism to comment fully on this, I would say it doesn't match with the accounts of patriarchs of Constantinople I've read though. But I am aware that religion and politics did mix a lot in Byzantium. That of course never happened in Rome

[jehoshaphat]

But then does the Patriarch have the authority to issue an anathema? Maybe maybe not.

[Eleventh Doctor]

Yes, he does, who else would have the authority to do so?

[jehoshaphat]

The Pope/the church as a whole.