Men & Women, Who Should Be Ordained?

[Miss Friendship]

In charge and leadership are the same thing.

But in reality, things like this happen, cause we all have a great deal of stubbornness and pride in our natures. The husband, besides hating California, has the wrong idea that if he gives into his wife he is displaying weakness and his friends urge him "not to let her rule you" the wife, on the other hand knows that if she gives in, the husband will learn he can control his wife, and who wants a controlling husband?

I think it's important to note that all of the verses that say wives submit to your husband are immediately followed by verses saying husbands sacrifice yourself for your wives. Die to self. The Bible is not a one sided command, it is a command for mutual submission and sacrifice. There is no leader in a marriage, besides God. A cheerful submissive wife is useless in a marriage without a husband who sacrifices himself, who is willing to sacrifice his desire to go to North Dakota.

You are absolutely right except I disagree about no leader in the home... But as for me, a woman, if I ever marry, I cannot expect my husband to sacrifice for me all the time, my job is to submit. And I suppose its the same way the other way around... But if a wife is always expecting her husband to love and sacrifice for her, and the husband always expects the wife to submit, you can understand why I have some doubts as to that working. Both have to do their part, and if a woman is told she is equal to her husband in the way that she doesn't need to listen to his authority...somethings going to fail. That is my fear. Glad to hear you agree women do need to submit...

[Eleventh Doctor]

But if a husband is always expecting his wife to submit and obey him, and the wife always expects the husband to sacrifice, you can understand why I have some doubts as to that working. Both have to do their part, and if a man is told he is equal to his wife in the way that he doesn't need to sacrifice...somethings going to fail. That is my fear. Glad to hear you agree men do need to sacrifice though...

[Miss Friendship]

Uhhh...did you take copyrighted material and twist it or didn't you?

Copyrighted 2015

[Hermione]

Uhhh...did you take copyrighted material and twist it or didn't you?

Copyrighted 2015

Wait--I'm very confused. What and where is this copyrighted material to which you are referring?

[Miss Friendship]

It's a joke

If you look closer, Eleventh used some of the phrasing of words from my last post and used it in his post.

[Eleventh Doctor]

I literally just copied and pasted what you said and just swapped the genders. You seem to disagree with your own statements when they're applied equally to both genders.

[Spoon]

That's because the genders are equal, except the one that isn't.

[Miss Friendship]

I agreed with what you wrote... But I thought we were discussing women, not men?

I fail to see how when one submits, that erases equality....

[Eleventh Doctor]

We're discussing both. Equality by it's very definition means either neither side submitting or both submitting.

[TigerShadow]

Eleventh, you've probably talked about this before at length (and if so, feel free to quote old posts and then punch me with the "read the thread" fist), but what do you make of the passages that talk about wives submitting to their husbands as to the Lord?

[Miss Friendship]

OK well I guess the equality I am talking of is equal worth to God. So, a married man and women are of equal worth, just like a general and a soldier, but one is a little higher in command. Which all of you will call unfair, repression of the women, etc.

[Eleventh Doctor]

@MissFriendship Then specify that you mean equal worth to God and be willing to admit that you do not believe in equality here on earth for men and women.

@Tiger I think people who want men to be over women always leave out the next verse that talks about men loving their wives like Christ loved us, which means dying completely to your own desires. Christ didn't want to die but He did it because He loved us. The Christian view of marriage was a radical departure from the marriages of the Roman times where a woman was the literal property of her husband. I see the commands as ones of mutual submission and sacrifice.

[Miss Friendship]

For men and women that are married. Admitted. Stamped. Sealed.

Anything else, doctor?

[Eleventh Doctor]

Nope, seems like we have identified a fundamental disagreement about the nature of the genders that cannot be reconciled.