]Cute thought. Sorry, couldn't resist. Fact is, some Protestant kings and queens beheaded Catholics needlessly, and some priests have been known to be, ah, unholy, and some Catholic... never mind, you get the idea. It's really not a historical question, it's theological question: can you do evil after accepting Christ? Or does your free will cancel out? I'm inclined to think it doesn't. The fact is, from my past, (I'm being very candid here) I know I'm capable of some pretty serious sins. And i'd accepted Christ into my heart. So, there you go. However: Jay isn't evil. He's just kinda bratty.
“I absolutely demand of you and everyone I know that they be widely read in every [censored] field there is: in every religion and every art form and don’t tell me you haven’t got time! There’s plenty of time.”~ Ray Bradbury
Pound Foolish wrote:Cute thought. Sorry, couldn't resist. Fact is, some Protestant kings and queens beheaded Catholics needlessly, and some priests have been known to be, ah, unholy, and some Catholic... never mind, you get the idea. It's really not a historical question, it's theological question: can you do evil after accepting Christ? Or does your free will cancel out? I'm inclined to think it doesn't. The fact is, from my past, (I'm being very candid here) I know I'm capable of some pretty serious sins. And i'd accepted Christ into my heart. So, there you go. However: Jay isn't evil. He's just kinda bratty.
Yeah we can still sin.. and yeah he can be kinda bratty
"Your words were found, and I ate them, and your words became to me a joy and the delight of my heart, for I am called by your name, O Lord, God of hosts." - Jeremiah 15:16
I think that Jay has the potential to become a Christian, and if he is one, he needs help.
~Queen Belle of Altanovia, Knight of Montreal & Order of Aristotle, Benevolent Dictator, Catspaw of the SS, & Dan's couch troll~
~"I’ve always found you to be a good person to disagree with." - Eleventh Doctor~
Godsgirl6153 wrote:I think that Jay has the potential to become a Christian, and if he is one, he needs help.
Agreed. People can say they are Christians, but being a true Christian also means we desire to live a life like Christ...and we can't live a life like Christ if we aren't acting like one. And, while I don't think Jay is evil, he certainly isn't a kind person very often- therefore his isn't acting very Christ like, which is probably what is leading people to believe he isn't a real, true Christian under God's leading. Oh, and I also believe that a true, born-again Christian can and will stumble and fall at times- but he can be forgiven, but I also hope that person will try and learn from his mistakes to become a better person.
Anyways, I'm not trying to be judgmental or anything and I hope that made sense:) Oh, and I also love Jay! He's hilarious and one of my favorite characters ever!
Well said, Suzy! Very well thought out. You seem quite intelligent, if I may say so. Jay isn't a model Christian, if he is Christian. However, he's harder to classify than any other character. He's so mean sometimes, he occasionally seems like an antagonist. On the other hand, he is capable of friendly social interaction with the others, and even expressed concern for his uncle Wally, and willingly helped him without complaining. Perhaps Jay cannot be classified. Perhaps he's too complex.
“I absolutely demand of you and everyone I know that they be widely read in every [censored] field there is: in every religion and every art form and don’t tell me you haven’t got time! There’s plenty of time.”~ Ray Bradbury
Pound Foolish wrote:Well said, Suzy! Very well thought out. You seem quite intelligent, if I may say so. Jay isn't a model Christian, if he is Christian. However, he's harder to classify than any other character. He's so mean sometimes, he occasionally seems like an antagonist. On the other hand, he is capable of friendly social interaction with the others, and even expressed concern for his uncle Wally, and willingly helped him without complaining. Perhaps Jay cannot be classified. Perhaps he's too complex.
Why, thank you! You seem quite intelligent yourself. And yes, I agree with you...he's just a rather complex character, hopefully we'll learn more about these in-depth things about him in the future of AIO. I can say he does have his soft spots though, like you said about his concern and willingness to help Wally, oh, and in the end of "Mistaken For Good" Oh my wordy...that almost had me in tears!!:') He is quite an interesting character.
Yes, Mistaken for Good. Odyssey is can be beautiful, can't it?
“I absolutely demand of you and everyone I know that they be widely read in every [censored] field there is: in every religion and every art form and don’t tell me you haven’t got time! There’s plenty of time.”~ Ray Bradbury
Godsgirl6153 wrote:I think that Jay has the potential to become a Christian, and if he is one, he needs help.
Thats for sure.
Katerina Meltsner
I'm a member of the doll lover's club. I'm a member of the SS sister's club. I'm a member of the Modest Cheerleaders Club I'm a member of the Superheroes club Emily is ANNOYING "Eugene, we missed our own wedding''
Jay is a kid who's trying to have his own way, and his way just isn't very good, and gets in the path of others. He can be mean, yes. And he likes to be mean. But he is also capable of getting along with the other characters, and acts of kindness. I've always suspected he has a very complicated, discontent heart, with goodness inside, though he's no goody two shoes and never will be.
“I absolutely demand of you and everyone I know that they be widely read in every [censored] field there is: in every religion and every art form and don’t tell me you haven’t got time! There’s plenty of time.”~ Ray Bradbury
I'd say he's inbetween. As we saw in Mistaken for Good, he has a heart, just in the core.
My theory is that he has a rough past, and that made him tough and a bit heart-less. But then again, he's not that bad. Maybe he just likes to be annoying and finds pleasure in making life tough for others. Who knows?
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I think that they are starting to change him, bit by bit. In TGR, he helps his Uncle Wally to stop the bad guys, and, as many of you have mentioned, in Mistaken for Good, he shows his heart.
Wally Haggler: You heard the man, Jay! We have to pull that switch!
Jay Smouse: That was no man. That was Matthew.
Wally Haggler: Did you write everything down?
Jay Smouse: I think so, but I had to scribble on [the front of this] receipt from the hardware store, so it's kind of mixed up.
Wally Haggler: Let's hear it.
Jay Smouse: They drove the big truck back to a very nice house in a 40 gallon trash can.
Wally Haggler: What?
Jay Smouse: Sorry. Brentwood Estates. Then, they took the sheets off the hex-head cap screws.
Wally Haggler: Jay!
Jay Smouse: Furniture! Furniture! I told you this was a mess. And then they drove the big truck down to a lot near Gower's Field where the Tub Shelf Utility Cart is set up.
Wally Haggler: Uncle Archie's Carnival
Jay Smouse: Yeah, that. Then they got into a PVC plastic fitting.
Wally Haggler: Pickup truck.
Jay Smouse: Pickup truck and drove here to an iron gate on chrome pike.
Wally Haggler: Gold Camp Road.
Whether a character is a good guy or bad guy is really more of generic question. In real life, no one is good guy or bad guy as everyone has potential for good. However, people can be a bad guy in a certain aspect of life, a certain story. For instance, to a bank teller, a bank robber is most definitely a bad guy, unless you happen to be unusually fond of having a gun poking your nose. But to his children, that same robber may be amazingly gentle and kind, and wonderful father. I'm not endorsing the postmodernist view of relativity, an idea I consider absurd. I'm simply pointing out what we all know, there's really no such thing as a true bad guy. But, as I said, in a story, in one aspect of life, a person can be a bad guy TOO somebody. He can be a problem. The question is: is Jay better suited as a sympathetic and funny antagonist or a good guy who's a bit whacky and annoying?
“I absolutely demand of you and everyone I know that they be widely read in every [censored] field there is: in every religion and every art form and don’t tell me you haven’t got time! There’s plenty of time.”~ Ray Bradbury
Hear, hear! Jay's fascinating two-dimensionality won me over quickly, even when I was adjusting to the seeming horrors of the post-hiatus era. Jay seems to like the other kids, but he's not one of those pathetic bully stereotypes who just picks on people because he wants the kids' attention. He's like a real person. There's really a nearly invisible line of infinite fragility between good and darkness. And even his "bad-guy" side is born of out of a longing for competition. It's usually not so much an enjoyment of random meanness.
“I absolutely demand of you and everyone I know that they be widely read in every [censored] field there is: in every religion and every art form and don’t tell me you haven’t got time! There’s plenty of time.”~ Ray Bradbury
You know, I like Jay. Complexity is a trait that many characters should have, to some extent, and Jay is a very complex character. He's also great for humor. And he has such a unique and interesting voice...
Sir Arnold, Knight of the Order of Augustine, Debate Vampire
Mr. Yorp wrote:You don't need a degree to shovel manure.
I love Jay! I think he is one of my favorites in the newer families. I enjoy his humor . And even though he is a bully, I really don't consider him on the same level at Rodney Rathbone. Rodney was a mean bully, where as Jay tries to be mean, it just doesn't come across that way to me. That's just my personal opinion
Liz'alike wrote:I love Jay! I think he is one of my favorites in the newer families. I enjoy his humor . And even though he is a bully, I really don't consider him on the same level at Rodney Rathbone. Rodney was a mean bully, where as Jay tries to be mean, it just doesn't come across that way to me. That's just my personal opinion
Great opinion. Although I don't believe Rodney is SUPER mean. In a few episodes he is, but in most he's pretty much like Jay.
Yeah, I suppose... He just always came across crueler to me. Plus Jay doesn't have a gang of cruel sidekicks! Don't get me wrong though, I liked Rodney! He was also very funny, and had a lot of good episodes! I just Like Jay more...
I always enjoyed Rodney more after DBD when the Bones of Wrath all but split up. He seemed more comical and funny later.
You know what I just listened to for the first time in two years? Target of the Week! I noted how drastically Jay has changed in just a couple of hours, going from Vance's stupid little sidekick to taking on a whole character of his own, rising above Vance and any bully in Odyssey history. I definitely like the current Jay more than the Target of the Week Jay, don't you guys?
Sir Arnold, Knight of the Order of Augustine, Debate Vampire
Mr. Yorp wrote:You don't need a degree to shovel manure.
Sorry, couldn't resist. Fact is, some Protestant kings and queens beheaded Catholics needlessly, and some priests have been known to be, ah, unholy, and some Catholic... never mind, you get the idea. It's really not a historical question, it's theological question: can you do evil after accepting Christ? Or does your free will cancel out? I'm inclined to think it doesn't. The fact is, from my past, (I'm being very candid here) I know I'm capable of some pretty serious sins. And i'd accepted Christ into my heart. So, there you go. However: Jay isn't evil. 
He's just kinda bratty.
