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 Post subject: Re: Wish There Was Character Like...
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:21 pm 
Raspberry Ripple
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TigerShadow wrote:
And the "punk" thing isn't all we've brought up—in fact, Audrey is the one who was all for it; people are just picking that one thing out from everything else that this discussion has either suggested or implied. We, on the whole, just want child characters with unique interests.

I, specifically, picked that out because it didn't seem to fit with the other things mentioned. I like the idea of having characters with unique interests, but I honestly don't think that "punk" characters (with tattoos?!?) fit into the 8-12 age range. I'm just trying to clarify what Audrey's saying; did she really mean that part of it, or was she going overboard to make a point?

We need to keep one thing in mind. AIO is intended not to tell kids what to think, but to reinforce the ideas that their parents are already hopefully trying to instill in them. They don't want to unnecessarily offend anyone...within reason, of course.

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 Post subject: Re: Wish There Was Character Like...
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:49 pm 
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I think Audrey's main point was that AIO should bring in characters that aren't either the typical bully or Christian golden child.


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 Post subject: Re: Wish There Was Character Like...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 1:17 pm 
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Yes, that was the main focus of the post. The "punk" statement that caused so much controversy was only about a sentence of it. AIO is very fond of stereotyping, and that's the main issue here.

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 Post subject: Re: Wish There Was Character Like...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 1:39 pm 
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Oh, yes, if only there were Christians who were likable, but did nasty things. Like someone who's always bossing somebody. Or someone who yelled at Wooton, "Sorry? I'm the one who's sorry. For Wasting my time." Or maybe a character who is always insulting the others characters who changed students grades and tried to pin it on an acquaintance. Oh wait. They've done all that.

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 Post subject: Re: Wish There Was Character Like...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:07 pm 
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Thank you PF. I don't really see the kids at Whit's End as being golden Christians. Camilla wasn't even a Christian until that episode if I am correct. We have Jay that is constantly improving. We also have Buck for that matter.
I actually don't care about how you dye your hair. Though some colors look hideous. and most Christians realize that how they dress heavily affect there testimony. A lot of people say we as Christians don't need to dress a certain way, but actually I think we do. Our testimony is at stake. The world doesn't see the reasons; they just see what we dress and do.

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 Post subject: Re: Wish There Was Character Like...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:33 pm 
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Yup. The kids are always doing the wrong thing. That's what like half the episodes are about.

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 Post subject: Re: stereotypical characters
PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 8:08 pm 
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Maybe Christian Golden Child isn't the best way to put it.
I've noticed a lot of kids in Odyssey instantly know what they did wrong and are repentant as soon as Whit or their parents talk to them. I don't really know a lot of people like that.


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 Post subject: Re: Wish There Was Character Like...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 8:40 pm 
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I can only speak for me, but the problem that I'm trying to address isn't that there are no Christian characters who display flawed behavior ever; it's that we're not shown many Christian child characters (read: not Buck or Jules or Erica Colburn or Jay or any other characters who have been brought up to refute our points, since none of them are Christians yet) who consistently struggle with a particular flaw or are in a bad place in their Christian walk. I can only think of four, off the top of my head—Lucy (her spat with Connie, spanning from "Connie Goes to Camp" to "The Battle" and based primarily on her refusal to let go of a grudge), Trent (his fear of public speaking, addressed in "Called On In Class", "Tales of a Small Town Thug", and "Blood, Sweat, and Fears"), Mandy (her struggle trusting God during her parents' separation, as well as her grudge against Liz from "Seeing Red", "Stubborn Streaks", and "Split Ends"), and Liz (the same fight, although I don't think of Liz being on the same level as Mandy because she's more receptive to the idea of rekindling their friendship and tended to react more to Mandy's nastiness than actually being cruel herself). That's four characters within twenty-five years and over seven hundred episodes.

If one of you can show me a few more Christian child characters with a consistent flaw they wrestle with that isn't resolved in one episode, with some specific episodes that I can look up/listen to for myself (especially if they can be found in the relaunch), then I will gladly take it and be satisfied. As it is, those are the only ones I can think of (and I might be reaching).

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 Post subject: Re: Wish There Was Character Like...
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 4:23 pm 
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I was gone for a few days, and I must say I do not like the roast-OJ-on-a-stick that some of you have had. Yes, Tiger, I was addressing Audrey's comment about the punk. I also thought at the time that the people on this topic were agreeing that that would be a wonderful idea. If you will allow me to defend myself, the chance will be greatly appreciated.

1). The concept that it would be edifying to teach that you can love God and be faithful to Him with absolutely no change is horrendous. You all will proceed to tear me apart after this, but attempt to listen to what I think. Tiger, I cannot debate like you. Your skills far surpass mine. I posted my initial comment because Audrey stated something to the effect of "We should have somebody that has piercings, tattoos, and listens to heavy metal; but he comes to church every Sunday and loves God." Do not take me as being legalistic. Do not take me as being unloving. I just got home from church, where we run buses to pick up people and transport them to church, some who can fit that description. I love those people dearly. But you cannot grow closer and closer to God, increasing your walk with Him constantly, and still hold on to vestiges of that former lifestyle. Yes, you can be saved if you live that lifestyle. Yes, God will love you just as much as John the Beloved if you continue in that lifestyle. I've seen people that come into church like that, and they get serious about the Christian walk. Things change in them. I have yet to see someone that stays in that lifestyle and yet dives into the Christian life. And I don't live in Mayberry. We have people from that mold coming out our ears, but they don't stay that way and yet have lengthy times in Christian service.

2). Odyssey should have people that break out of the mold. Not only kids with specified interests, but even those punkish kids discussed earlier. We have seen in 58 that Focus is attempting to bring relevance to Odyssey by displaying the real world and how Christians can combat it. The punkish kid could be used to show the listening audience that Christian children can be friends and even a witness to them, yet not have said person reform. Because yes, I do not want everything on the show to have a happy ending. That is not life. But the kids can be taught how they can deal with situations that they will encounter in their lives in a godly way.

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 Post subject: Re: Wish There Was Character Like...
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 4:57 pm 
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I agree with you for the most part WE, but Odyssey needs to be careful when introducing them as they have been before.
I also agree with you Tiger. AIO needs more character. Hopefully, they will will start going up soon. Album 58 was a step in the right direction in my opinion. They need to get a little bit different variety. Times are a-changing.

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 Post subject: Re: Wish There Was Character Like...
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:21 pm 
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Agreed, OJ. especially on #2. But I liked that roast-OJ on a stick. It was tasty. Mmmmm...


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 Post subject: Re: Wish There Was Character Like...
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:28 pm 
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I'm sorry if it came across like I was trying to blindly rake you over the coals, OJ. I didn't mean to come across like I was personally attacking you. I was addressing what sounded to me like an attempt to claim that either you are a model Christian or you're completely amoral or immoral, an attitude that has personally needled me for a long time. Reading your post has given me a much better insight as to your views, and I certainly didn't mean to start a chain reaction of viciousness.

The Old Judge wrote:
1). The concept that it would be edifying to teach that you can love God and be faithful to Him with absolutely no change is horrendous.


And you are quite right; it is. I think we'll have to agree to disagree on the whole punk thing, but then again perhaps my perspective is skewed because I'm the sort of person who just wears clothes because they look good, not necessarily because they reflect my personality. I wear dresses and skirts and lacy clothes fairly often, but I wouldn't say I'm particularly girly or "preppy"; I just like how those clothes look. However, you have had a different experience, and I respect both your personal knowledge and your point. I guess I've just never really considered clothes and musical tastes to be a major indicator of a person's morality; it's the heart that counts to me and whether the person has been changed by the Holy Spirit, not whether their hair is a natural color or their body has never known a tattoo needle.

The Old Judge wrote:
Yes, Tiger, I was addressing Audrey's comment about the punk. I also thought at the time that the people on this topic were agreeing that that would be a wonderful idea.


The phrase "at the time" indicates that you already know this, but that's not at all what we were saying, or at least in my case; I just quoted that as part of an overall point about wanting to see characters who don't fit the "perfect Christian" mold (I myself am unsure as to the whole punk rocker thing; the reason I've been fairly defensive about it is because, again, judgment of morality based on outward appearance is a bit of a sore point with me). The conflict that arose out of this was a misunderstanding, and I'm sorry if I was too harsh in response to it.

(I feel like this might seem a bit petty in a post that's trying to be conciliatory, but quoting Audrey's post would have been helpful if that was all you were going to respond to.)

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 Post subject: Re: Wish There Was Character Like...
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:51 pm 
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It's not the listening to heavy metal music, though I would never. There are kids in my church that I know listen to similar veins of music. Actually, one of the bus kids I held the door open for was listening to her hip-hop or whatever it was. But she turned it off when she entered the building. This runs into the passage in Romans where Paul states that, if you and God have honestly sought out a certain matter, and you are not convicted by it, then you can do it as long as it is not openly restricted by Scripture. But it also says to not bring that up in front of someone else you know has a problem with it, because then you would be a stumbling block. What I am saying (long story short) is that I am judging your walk with God by what music you listen to, as long as your not flaunting that around fellow Chrostians who have a legitimate problem with that. That was my problem with the punk listening to heavy metal, was that he was described as not really cari about what people thought. I pictured him as talking about all the trash he listens to to the good little church kids and causing them to stumble.

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 Post subject: Re: Wish There Was Character Like...
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:29 pm 
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The Old Judge wrote:
That was my problem with the punk listening to heavy metal, was that he was described as not really cari about what people thought. I pictured him as talking about all the trash he listens to to the good little church kids and causing them to stumble.


Oh, okay; I see where you're coming from. I interpreted the whole I-don't-care-what-people-think thing as the character essentially having an attitude of "I know some people think that my tattooes and half-green hair are sinful, but I haven't been convicted in this vein and I've both prayed and received wise council about it, so judgmental attitudes from people who don't know my story don't bother me". What I was picturing in my head was the guy who looks like a rebel or something, but actually has a better grasp on theology and is closer to God than someone who grew up in the church, and that would thereby be able to connect with the target demographic in the sense of "just because someone chooses to dress a certain way doesn't mean that this is all there is to them".

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 Post subject: Re: Wish There Was Character Like...
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 5:56 pm 
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The Old Judge wrote:
Odyssey should have people that break out of the mold. Not only kids with specified interests, but even those punkish kids discussed earlier. We have seen in 58 that Focus is attempting to bring relevance to Odyssey by displaying the real world and how Christians can combat it. The punkish kid could be used to show the listening audience that Christian children can be friends and even a witness to them, yet not have said person reform. Because yes, I do not want everything on the show to have a happy ending. That is not life. But the kids can be taught how they can deal with situations that they will encounter in their lives in a godly way.

Thank you, Old Judge, I love this post! And I agree with you completely.

I love the AIO characters we have now, but I wish that they wouldn't always have to forgive the other person they are frustrated with........by the end of the episode.(Like how Mandy's and Liz's frustration lasted a few albums)

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 Post subject: Re: Wish There Was Character Like...
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:22 pm 
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Actually, Mandy and Liz's feud only spanned a few episodes; it began in the middle of Album 41 with "Seeing Red" and ended around the middle of Album 42 with "Split Ends". You're right to say that it was a good example of a realistic tension between friends; the problem is that it's an exception, not a rule.

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 Post subject: Re: Wish There Was Character Like...
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:29 pm 
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Oh, I forgot that it only lasted a few episodes; but I do wish that something like that would happen more time.

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 Post subject: Re: Wish There Was Character Like...
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:59 pm 
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How about a foster family you know always having different kids from different countries!

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 Post subject: Re: Wish There Was Character Like...
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:16 pm 
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Micky wrote:
How about a foster family you know always having different kids from different countries!


There were the Mulligans but maybe they should do that again. I don't really get how that's much different than any other family, though.

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 Post subject: Re: Wish There Was Character Like...
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:48 pm 
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It adds character you know two kids from say India and Africa in America is sure to be interesting.

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